The Empire(Star Wars, Pro) vs Covenant(Halo,Con)
Debate Rounds (3)
1. Land Battle
2. Space Battle
3.Final Battle, Darth Vader vs Arbiter.
First round acceptance. Second round, we explain all of the troops/ships/leader. Third round is how they would win.
There is only one rule for this debate of things not allowed:
No outside help at all (No Forerunner technology)
I thank my opponent beforehand for this debate.
First which time line for each faction are we talking about? For starwars OT time line before the Death Star was destroyed or after. Same with the covenant. Pre-human war, or post?
As far as forerunner technology, do you mean only unaltered discovered as well as undiscovered technology? Covenant tech is sorta based upon forerunner tech.
The empire is not allowed to use outside help as well correct?
As far as darth Vader vs arbiter do you mean them acting as commander or 1 vs 1?
I do mean to before the First Death Star was destroyed, and so, to be even, it would also be the Pre human war times of the Covenant. As far as forerunner, i don't know if you mean the planetoid building things or not, so we'll see about it. And yes, no outside help, so Empire won't be able to use Bounty Hunters like Boba Fett. You can choose if commander or 1v1.
Storm troopers: Empire's main ground troops. Very numerous, and numbe in the quintillion range :(https://m.reddit.com...), the person that says it is PM Me Your Smile). Their armor allows them to survive in near inhabitable places. They can be in specialized units, such as Snowtroopers(can survive in frigid temperatures), and flametroopers( have flamethrowers).
AT-ST: (All Terrain Scout Transporters) Two legged Vehicles used to traverse any terrain, mounted with two laser boasters at front.
AT-AT:(All Terrain Armored Transport: The most useful ground vehicle of all. A giant, four legged vehicle that stands 22.5 meters tall. Armed with two medium sized laser blisters and twin giant laser cannons, capable of blowing up tanks with one shot.
Tie Fighters: The main space vehicles, number in the millions. Armed with twin laser blasters
Tie Defender: Advanced TIE fighters, can be mounted with tractor beams and warhead launchers
Imperial Star Destroyers: Huge, dagger shaped spaceships that were 1,600 meters long. The Empire owned 25,000 of these.
The Death Star: The Empire's prized possession. A planetoids, sized spherical space station that could destroy planets with a single blast. Armed with thousands of lazer cannons along the surface, and a tractor beam.
Darth Vader: a cruel, merciless leader trained in the ways of the Force. Able to lift giant objects with the wave of a hand, choke his enemies by raising his arm, and has a red shaded light saber that is able to slice through rock and steel like butter. Only drawback is his armor, which is also his life support system. But, using the force, he is able to survive for hours if it is damaged.
Those are my troops. I only used the main ones for each category. All info comes from http://starwars.wikia.com...
Prophets - they are basically the Research and development race of the covenant. They created the most of the technology the covenant used by studying forerunner technology.
Elites - As their human name implies they are the elite warriors of the covenant, their entire race before being intergrated into the covenant was a warrior race. From birth to death all they know is battle, and battle strategies, they are also responsible for the quelling and taming of other race intergrating into the covenant.
Brutes - ape like soldiers, they are extremely strong and when provoked enough will go into a fit of berserking rage. They tend to have warlike tendencies
Grunts - front line units averaging about 5.5 feet and are very numerous as they reproduce exponentially. There are squads of kamikaze grunts
Drones or buggers - are insectoid like race, they are extremely fast and agile especially during flight due to their homeworld having a higher than average gravity.
Jackals - carrying superior senses they normally take up the position of a scout or sniper, or sharp shooter
Engineers - artificially created species, they aren't really placed on the battle field as combatants but when needed they are able to repair ally equipment or be used as suicide bombers
I saved my favorite for last
Lek'golo or hunters - they are the assemblage of worm-like entities, they are very unique, and intelligent. Although we normally see them cladded in very resilient steal, they can slip don the armor of enemies and be used to get behind enemy lines, as well as controlling giant machines.
Each race carries different armor the most noteable however are the elites and hunters, hunter clad nearly indestructible armor while the elites armor provides them with an energy shield that is rechargeable, when they have not taken damage for a while. Also elite armor contain added perks such as camo or flight. Jackals that work in platoons carry energy shields.
I guess I will Give a brief description on weaponary cause they are just as diverse, however if I focus too much I'll run out of character space so.
Most covenant Arsenal is plasma/based directed energy weapons, however the covenant are known to utilize pulse lasers- particle beam weapons, as well as antimatter, and even chemical crystal based weapons.
Their ammunition based based weapons such as their chemical crystal homes in on organic target. While brutes tend to use metal spike based ammunition. For melee weapons energy swords are most popular and common among elites, white brutes uses a gravity hammer doing tremendous damage to anything within a close radius. I'd also like to add in a unique feature of the plasma pistol, that when charged up has a homing like feature that can disable vehicles for a short period of time.
Light armored ground vehicles - chopper, ghost, spectre, revenant. These are quick and agile have boosters and guns mounted, revenant light vehicles with 1 passenger that has boost as well as fire mortar like projectiles
Heavy armored vehicles - wraith (has boost, a machine gun like turret some requires a passengers some have two turrets at the tip, they fire mortar like rounds that can hit their targets while being behind a barrier) Prowlers has a plasma turret capable of spinning 360 degrees as well as providing two passenger seats the prowlers are extremely difficult to flip over it, it's like the cats of vehicles, they always land stable and ready to go.. Shadow heavy transpiration vehicle that can also transport light vehicles As well as having a 360 turret mount. Anti-aircraft wraith, a variant of the wraith it is equipped with two rapid fire triple barreled fuel rod cannons. LOCUST it's an anti fortification vehicle that moved with legs and can climb over terrain as well as being used for mining
Super heavy or giant - scarab, they come In 3 known types, 29, 36, and 47. All of them are all terrain, they have a propulsion system that can withstand shock from low orbital drop, max speed of 76km per hrs or 47 mph. Has a powerful main cannon that is nearly a capital-ship-scaled energy projector capable of mass destruction, as well as added AA cannons and normally deployed with a 40 man crew to protect it from being boarded. On top of that they have ultra heavy plasma cannons mounted as well, that range from anti infantry to anti ultra heavy vehicles. The 47 protos model is nearly indestructible and is piloted by elites
Banshees - carry rapid fire plasma cannons and a fuel rod cannon
Lich - airborne deployment ship
Spirit - carrier ship with turret
Phantom - carrier ship with turret and can transport vehicles
Vampire - atmospheric fighter, turret mounted be elders and 2 energy guns excellent anti aircraft ship.
Seraph - multi roles firghtet equipped with standard energy shielding, like laser, plasma charges(similar to plasma pistol) heavy plasma cannon
Spaceship frigates -
Frigates, assault carriers, battle cruisers , stealth shops, corvette , scavenger craft, boarding ships
Light cruiser and super cruisers
Note that covenant are also capable of orbital drops, meaning they can drop elite troops into the battle field from space.
Okay as far as arbiter, they are usually chosen from the most elite warriors of the elite race. They are very intelligent and wise as well as capable battle strategist. They usually are stuck doing the hardest job, such as quelling rebellions or taming new races. Although they tend to be considered the leader of their force if an arbiter were to fall moral would not be dropped as elites stem from a race of warriors all capable of being able to continue fighting without a leader and fight well.
Sorry the troops and equipments are so diverse that when I got to the cruisers and ships there were so many different types that character count wouldn't be enough. Anyways all sources come from halopedia.org
How Empire would beat Covenant.
Size: The sheer size of the Imperial army could devastate even the mot skillful of soldiers. With the many different types of troopers, they can overcome almost anything thrown at them. Also, some of the Empire's vehicles are f*cking HUGE! All AT-ATs have to do is step on Wraiths to blow them up. Plus, the only weakness they seem to have is giant string (which X-Wings seem to have for some reason), and I doubt the Covenant would be smart enough to utilize this.
Smarts: While the Elites seem to be pretty intelligent, all of the aliens they enslave don't seem to be as much. I've watched Jackals and Grunts, when they try to dodge a plasma grenade, jump RIGHT INTO IT! The Empire has thousands of intelligent officers commanding them from the Death Star, or in the giant AT-ATs.
CSO-class Super carrier vs Executor-class Star Destroyer: I've dug deep into this, and in all of the sites I've seen, Executor comes out on top. All the Executor has to do is fire all of it's heavy turbo lasers at once(which would equal to more than a Nova Bomb, and aim it right for the carrier. In the only two ways I've seen where the carrier has a chance to, it could use the glassing beam(Executor is faster, and could dodge it), or a slip space jump right into it(would destroy both ships).
Size: Again, the amount of ships the Empire has is ridiculous. TIE-Defenders have warhead missiles, which would ultimately wipe out any ship of the same size (Banshees, etc.), while bigger ships would be more of the problem, don't forget the Empire has 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers. The Death Star could also just blow up Halo with it's giant laser.
Darth Vader vs Arbiter:
Abilities: While Arbiter is armed usually with two energy swords and invisibility, Vader can sense his surroundings with the force. He could also force choke Arbiter, like he usually does with his officers. Of course, he has to break the shield first, but a couple of lightsaber stabs/Forcing into rocks and such should take care of that.
As you can see, the Empire could easily wipe the Covenant off the face of the Galaxy. I thank my opponent for debating this with me.
Space: Its pretty close but the covenant can pull it off, the reason why everyone says the executor comes out on top is because of some extended universe stuff which doesn't apply to the OT, the guy writing doesn't even realize the sheer power 200gigaton is, he wrote it would take 24 days to to wreck an entire planet when in reality with 200gigaton it would only take 5 seconds. Therefore since it is inconsitent as well as being extended universe it does not apply here.
So the covenant will actually fair a better chance in space battles than you put it. Again diversity plays a big part in what purs them on top. They just have a more variety than the tie fighters as well as their fighters being shielded. Banshees also have a a variant made for space battles that are shielded. The covenant class cruisers shielding is a lot more advanced as well, it is not directly on the hull and they take less system loss when their shield gets damaged. I'd say whst gives it to the covenant is their speciality at boarding and planting bombs.
Arbiter vs Darth Vader: No force it would go to arbiter, with force hmmm I'll try to argue this the best I can I don't know if this argument is legal though. Usually the elites chosen as arbiter excel in all fields, elites are also pretty one with nature for being a warrior races. So although the arbiter may not be able to use the force, after it being used on him a couple of times or knowing about it, the arbiter may be able to resist it at least. Making it a fair fight. However if people say I'm cheating by having the arbiter able to recognize the force than the arbiter will straight up loose.
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