The Instigator
Naruto_Usumaki
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Redman2234
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

The Empire from Starwars are the good guys.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Redman2234
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2016 Category: Movies
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,268 times Debate No: 98021
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

Naruto_Usumaki

Pro

We will be arguing about the Empire from Star wars. I support the claim that the Empire is the good guys.
Redman2234

Con

I accept your challenge and will try to prove to you that the Empire are in fact not the good guys
Debate Round No. 1
Naruto_Usumaki

Pro

The Jedi think they are vast Superior compared to anyone, a prime example is in "The Phantom Menace" Obi-Wan who is one of the best Jedi's the counsel has to offer, simply refers to Jar-Jar Binks as a "pathetic life form." As well as their desperate attempt to kill off Palpatine, With Mace Windu saying "If he does not give up his emergency powers after the destruction of Grievous, then he must be forcibly removed from office" which not only is a Non Democratic thing to do considering the Jedi are the ones that Normally stand up for Democracy, but also is more of a Communist thing to do. Then when Mace Windu confronts Palpatine, He processed to try to kill Palpatine because windu said's "He has control of the senate and all the courts. He is too dangerous to be left alive" An indication in his Mistrust towards the very Democracy hes to protect.

Obi Wan saids "Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil! The Sith are evil. The Dark Side of the Force is an evil presence." But yet Palpatine makes a very valid point when he saids " Good is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power". The only difference of the two is the Sith embrace Emotions while the Jedi believe rejection Of Emotions will lead to peace. A prime example is when a young Anakin around ten leaves for the first time his Home and processed's with Obi Wan to the Jedi Counsel so he could have them Accept Anakin as his Apprentice, When He arrives at the counsel. Yoda notices fear in Anakin whom is just a young kid and has every reason to be scared, Yodas response is "Fear leads to anger, Anger leads to hate, Hate leads to Suffering".
Redman2234

Con

He called Binks pathetic because of his incompetence. The reason Mace wanted to kill and eject Palpatine is because he was pretty damn sure that he was the spy helping the C.I.S. And if he was right (Which he was) then having a person who openly wants to get rid of the democracy would be bad. He would not stand down so Mace decided to kill him to save the republic.

Yes the Jedi and Sith seem similar but there is a difference with their code
"The Jedi Code is a complex of five (or four) antitheses: emotion and peace, ignorance and knowledge, passion and serenity, (chaos and harmony,) death and the Force. This means that the Jedi seek to transcend some aspects of everyday life and even natural laws through the Force; they don't negate them, but rather embrace, acknowledge and seek to overcome them. They are morally single-minded and make clear distinctions between light and darkness. There is no first and second grammatical person in the Code, which means they are not biased or prejudiced against anyone personally nor obsessed with their image, but rather focused on how the Force works and how their world is (There is...). They view the world as something static."

"The Sith Code takes the form of a ladder: every sentence has two basic terms, with the second one becoming the first term of the next sentence. This means that the Sith don't care about moral distinctions; more than being immoral, they are amoral, so to speak. Also, their philosophy is very individualistic, as it has already been pointed out; there is only the first grammatical person, I, proving that. Their Code describes how an ambitious person can rise from being nothing to ruling everything to being free from every physical and spiritual boundary. They care only about themselves, have faith in nobody and see the Force as a means to and end"the end being unlimited power and freedom from death and any other limit. They see the world as something in the making, not static."
Debate Round No. 2
Naruto_Usumaki

Pro

But The Jedi Betrayal of Palpatine lead to the Escalated war, Palpatine wasn't in the wrong when he issued Order 66 to have the Storm troopers Execute the Jedi. If you have a pack agreement with someone, It is unwise to violate the treaty. Furthmore His intention was never to get rid of the Democracy but rather bring Security to the Galaxy.

Yes he commited a Genocide against the Jedis but they were in the way of Ultimate peace, Furthermore They were Pro Republic which means they would do all in their power to Eliminate Palpatine. His goal can be seen that he wanted to be the Ultimate sith. Similar to the story he told to Anakin about Darth Plaqueis "I thought not. It"s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It"s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith who lived many years ago. He was so powerful and so wise that he could use the Force to influence the midi-chlorians to create life" He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying".

Both have a idea construct for Peace but is Emperor Palpatines idea of peace that is Similar to Realities, where as you see Many tried to pursue Peace with the fact of knowledge but lead to little Effort being made, It wasn't until Nuclear Wareheads were made (In Starwars Case of The Death Star) that the biggest threat of all was making Peace. Heres a Scenario, If Everyone was fighting each other in a Sword fight and I bring a gun then Clearly I would have the upper Advantage, In which I would be able to call shots in which I would be able to make everyone get along since I would have the Advantage. This can be said with the Death Star since it is the Most Superior weapon (Of the time) in which Emperor Palpatine forcibly made The Galaxy be at peace (Until the Rebellion)
Redman2234

Con

Lets ignore the beginning bit because this is a objective view on the Empire itself and we have limited time. So your right with the fact that if you go to the sword fight with the gun you have the advantage but guess what. That is not peace you are forcing them because they can not kill you without dying. And I guarantee you they will betray you the instant they get. The reason the nuclear warheads work in real life is because since everyone has some not one person rules. The death star is a problem because Palpatine has ultimate rule with it and if someone disagrees? We get another alderan. Also there's the fact that there are slaves with the empire so it is not completely peaceful
Debate Round No. 3
Naruto_Usumaki

Pro

Alderan only blew up because it was under Tarkin's orders because the planet was a Rebel refueling Station and to send a message to Princess Leia for her to give out the location of Rebel Headquarters. There is no such thing as a Good War. Even in real life at the End of WW2, Berlin was Decimated by Allied Planes. The Jedi Certainly did damage in the war by blowing up the death Star full of millions of life's, Twice. I said all That I needed to say.
Redman2234

Con

That's my point. How was the rebellion formed? A bunch of different races did not want to be ruled by the empire and as a show of might the empire blew up that planet. At the time they thought the rebel base was on datooine. So if what you say is true then they had no reason to blow up alderan. And finally like I said the only reason nuclear warheads work at all in real life is because every countire has some. So everyone can be a threat that is not the case with the death star since the only one is owned by the empire. Who uses slaves and forces people to obey. Another side note the tie fighters were made so that they are loud to make people fear the tie fighters
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Redman2234 1 year ago
Redman2234
My point with the warheads is since that multiple country's have some not one person rules
Posted by Naruto_Usumaki 1 year ago
Naruto_Usumaki
I am unable to respond due to the Debate being over. However Not Every country has Nuclear Wareheads. only 7 countries have it
Posted by Naruto_Usumaki 1 year ago
Naruto_Usumaki
Jonbonbon because Even villians have a reason why they do what they do, and some of the reasons are totally Justifiable.
Posted by Redman2234 1 year ago
Redman2234
You said that you are trying to prove they are the good guys. Since I disagree with you then I am trying to prove they are not good guys. aka bad guys
Posted by Jonbonbon 1 year ago
Jonbonbon
Why does everyone like trying to flip things to their opposite? Viewing a genocidal and oppressive dictatorship as good does not make you a more enlightened or thoughtful human. The protagonists are the good guys. The antagonists are the bad guys. That's it.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by jo154676 1 year ago
jo154676
Naruto_UsumakiRedman2234Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had better spelling as con misspelled some of the planets in the movie "datooine". Con made more convincing arguments regarding the morality of the genocide. Con had the more reliable sources as he cited the codes of each group rather than just making generalized statements about them.