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The Enclave from the Fallout video game series aren't as bad as they seem.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2016 Category: Games
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 240 times Debate No: 87561
Debate Rounds (3)
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The Enclave, as in the descendants of the American government in the Fallout series, are antagonistic to the main characters' stories in many of the Fallout games. This makes most people see them as evil since they are in opposition of the player's goal, but I say they are the lesser of the wastelands evils. I'm looking for someone to take the stance that the Enclave are the "bad guys" from the point of view of someone outside of the Fallout universe.


I'm looking forward th this debate. i've been really loading up on lore while i obsess over fallout 4 and this argument is quite interesting to me.

Bad: not such as to be hoped for or desired; unpleasant or unwelcome.
"bad weather"

This is the definition of bad as given by google. Perhaps, the proper term we are looking for is evil.

But what is evil. Yes, the illusion evil is given by the fact that the Enclave is a direct antagonist of the main character. However, if you take a deeper look at what the enclave are as a whole, the same conclusion can still be reached.

Evil can be defined as selfishness, unnecessary violence, and for the good of few at the expense of the many.

Through this then, the enclave can be described exactly as this. While the original goal of the enclave was to build a spaceship and terraform another planet, such as mars, it quickly transformed into the descendants of Government conspiracists wanting to take control for themselves. They discriminate against the people they deem "Impure" even though they didn't have any actual control of whether or not their genes were corrupt. The enclave seek to promote themselves as the "perfect race" rather than to help the many that had no control over the society that they lived in now. While the enclave may have a bias against them for being the main antagonists of fallout 3, there is still enough evidence to prove that they are still an evil and selfish organization.
Debate Round No. 1


This is my first debate on this site so I apologize in advance for not being accustomed to how these are usually done. I failed to give definitions to be used in this debate and am glad you have.

Evil is difficult to define due to it being completely subjective, this is the very reason why it could be said that from a players point of view they are indeed evil. The stance I am taking however is that from the point of view of someone outside their universe (like any given person in the real world) the Enclave is far from the base definition of bad.

"not such as to be hoped for or desired"
If one were to tell any random person on the street that there were a large population of mutants a few towns over, some of which were violent murderous monsters and some of which acted and looked like normal people, most people would at least feel alarmed and uncomfortable. If you also told them that you could get rid of them if enough people agreed with you, they would probably gladly give you their support. Yes this argument is based on speculation and assumptions but is supported by mankind's ingrained need to destroy that which threatens their way of life, even more true when they themselves don't have to be the ones to do it.

"Unpleasant or unwelcome"
While it is difficult to argue that a group of people with advanced technology and a feverish desire to wipe out the majority of life on any given planet are not unpleasant, I'll try. War is unpleasant, genocide is unpleasant, killing for the most part is unpleasant. The trick here is that mutated humans in fiction aren't often viewed as people. Vampires, werewolves, ghouls, and monsters of this sort are viewed as creatures even though they were once human, I argue that such would be the same with humans irradiated in the way they are in the Fallout universe.

Given humans obsession with superiority and history of dehumanizing those they deem enemies I believe they would gladly welcome the Enclave if they existed in our world.

I understand that saying that we in the real world are, arguably, terrible isn't the strongest foundation for an argument about a fictional population of people but this is a universe that is a parallel to ours. To streamline my argument for this round: The Enclave does not necessarily fit the definition of bad, and only seem that way when viewed from the perspective of someone inside their own universe but outside of their organization.


jxc2000 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


Though you forfeited the previous round I'm not going to press my argument any further. If you wish to reply to my previous post go ahead and do so in the last round.


You have given a very good argument. It was not that i desired to miss this part of the debate, it is simply that my studies have made keeping up with a debate very difficult. I believe that both mine and my opponent's arguments are full enough in order to be judged, and once again I apologize for missing the round of that debate
Debate Round No. 3
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