The Instigator
YahwehIsMyRock
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Atheism
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

The Existence Of God

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/12/2010 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 819 times Debate No: 12317
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (4)

 

YahwehIsMyRock

Pro

I argue that God in fact does exist.

Being that I am instigating this debate I would like to give the first round to my opponent. I will in turn take the last round in the debate.

Please be courteous in this debate. Excess emotion has no place in a debate.
Thank You
Atheism

Con

I am con, and I do not agree to the resolution, which is, God exists in all planes.
Since my opponent has failed to post the resolution, I define it as such. It is now mine, and irreversible.
Definition of exist:
to have being or reality
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

Definition of plane.
A level of development, existence, or achievement
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

Now, that said, creationists state that God does not exist in the material realm. Ergo, God does not exist in all realms. I win. Vote Con.
Another argument would be that God does not exist in every level of development, as the definition states. If God did, than he would never have been perfect, as developing means that he is progressing, or changing in some way. Why would a perfect being need to change or develop? Therefore, God is not perfect. Ergo, God does not exist.

In a syllogism:
P1:God is Perfect.
P2:Perfect beings do not need to develop change, or progress.
P2A:To develop/change/progress is to be imperfect. (From P2)
P2B:God, as 'it' is perfect, does not need to develop/change/progress. (From P2)
P3:Therefore, God does not ever develop/change/progress. (From P2, P2A, and P2B)
P4:Therefore, God would not exist in every level of development, as development is imperfect. (From P2, P2A, P2B, and P3)
P5:Ergo, God would not exist in every plane. (From P4)
Debate Round No. 1
YahwehIsMyRock

Pro

First I want to thank you for accepting this debate.

-Rebuttals

The resolution was stated in the title "Does God exist?". I did not limit the resolution as I did not want a debate on a particular God. I didn't narrow down the question to a particular plane.

Your first argument shows a unusual display of arrogance. Claiming victory in the first round is less than good form, but I digress. In response to this argument

"Now, that said, creationists state that God does not exist in the material realm. Ergo, God does not exist in all realms. I win. Vote Con."

It is unwise to choose the belief of your opponent. I never stated that I was in fact a creationist. I purposely left my particular belief out because it is irrelevant to this debate. Also I state that if God exists he is supreme over everything. Thereby making the so called "planes" subject to him. He is not bound by the planes, but rather he is in control of them. He does not exist in any of the planes, but rather they exist in him.

Secondly You stated "God does not exist in the material realm. Ergo, God does not exist in all realms.". By this you claim that anything that cannot be measured, experimented on, or seen does not exist. If you actually believe this how can you account for emotion, memory, & fear.

In your second argument you state....

"In a syllogism:
P1:God is Perfect.
P2:Perfect beings do not need to develop change, or progress.
P2A:To develop/change/progress is to be imperfect. (From P2)
P2B:God, as 'it' is perfect, does not need to develop/change/progress. (From P2)
P3:Therefore, God does not ever develop/change/progress. (From P2, P2A, and P2B)
P4:Therefore, God would not exist in every level of development, as development is imperfect. (From P2, P2A, P2B, and P3)
P5:Ergo, God would not exist in every plane. (From P4)"

This argument doesn't interfere with God's existence at all! God isn't part of any plane. He is supreme over the
planes. He is their creator.

- Contentions

1. There are four possibilities for the existence of this world.
a) It isn't here
b) It always been here
c) It suddenly existed with no prompting
d) It was created
The first two are impossible. We do exist. It cannot always have been here. The law of entropy states that all motion will eventually come to a halt. For matter to appear out of nothingness is preposterous. This leaves only the final option.

2. Motion
For there to be motion there must be an initial force. This force cannot come from emptiness. It must come from a creator, or supreme being.
Atheism

Con

//The resolution was stated in the title "Does God exist?". I did not limit the resolution as I did not want a debate on a particular God. I didn't narrow down the question to a particular plane.//
You should have stated this then. Your fault.

//It is unwise to choose the belief of your opponent. I never stated that I was in fact a creationist. I purposely left my particular belief out because it is irrelevant to this debate. //
Which faith you are matters a lot on this debate, I would think. It is about the existence of God. I doubt there could be anything bigger than that, and so every smidgen of a detail counts, whether or not you think it is relevant. Also, just by looking at your username, I automatically assumed you were going for a Christian stance.

//Also I state that if God exists he is supreme over everything. Thereby making the so called "planes" subject to him. He is not bound by the planes, but rather he is in control of them. He does not exist in any of the planes, but rather they exist in him.//
Now, God(s) are usually three things, one of which is Omnipresent.
Now, if a God is Omnipresent, then he exists everywhere. It doesn't matter if he is not subject to the planes or not. It matters if he is in those planes all at once. Now, I assume you believe God does not exist in the material realm. Therefore, whether he/she subject to these realms or not, this God must exist in all realms, at all times, in all places. If he/she does not exist in the material realm, then your god is not Omnipresent, and therefore not a God. I win.

Your, "He does not exist in any of the planes," argument just completely ensures you lost. You just made God not a God anymore, but a superpowered being. Not a God. I win.

//Secondly You stated "God does not exist in the material realm. Ergo, God does not exist in all realms.". By this you claim that anything that cannot be measured, experimented on, or seen does not exist. If you actually believe this how can you account for emotion, memory, & fear.//
Sort of, but you need to add more to the measured, experiment, or seen argument. But that doesn't really matter, seeing as how you made your point. And, in fact, emotion, memory, and fear (redundant of emotion) can be experimented on and measured. We have found that emotion is a function of the brain, using neurological pulses. I am not quite sure I described that right, but that's somewhere around it. Memory, we have dissected and measured as well. In fact, you can measure your memory right now. How long can you think back, hm? Yesterday? A week ago?
Well, it doesn't matter, but what does is that you just measured your memory capacity.
Fear is an emotion, and I already explained that. I have negated your argument/rebuttal.

//This argument doesn't interfere with God's existence at all! God isn't part of any plane. He is supreme over the
planes. He is their creator.//
Yes it does, I already explained this in my previous arguments.

//1. There are four possibilities for the existence of this world.//
More, in fact, but I won't nitpick on this.
//a) It isn't here//
Cody Franklin did an interesting debate about objectivism, and it included whether reality was real and whatnot. Very stimulating. http://www.debate.org...
Also, it could not be here. This could be a figment of the conscious of the universe, or something like that. There could be emptiness, and the things I'm experiencing now is what everyone is experiencing. Everyone is integral to this consciousness of emptiness, and it will replay again and again once I die. It is basically bound to happen, again, and again. I'll explain further, if you need me to, but its really giving even me a slight headache from pondering the possible realities of the universe and multiple universes and realities, but it is possible that the universe isn't here.
//b) It always been here//
Why is this impossible? It's more plausible then God coming out of nowhere and poofing the universe like nobody's business. He would have to be more complex than the universe itself. And then you theists have the nerve to say all this happened... and when asked how god got here, you say he always was here. The same thing you just said was impossible for the universe to do by itself, which is so much easier instead of magical fairy man making the universe and then some. Fajibble.
//c) It suddenly existed with no prompting//
This is still more plasuible than god appearing out of nowhere with no prompting. If he always existed, see B.
//d) It was created//
See B and C.
//The first two are impossible. We do exist. It cannot always have been here. The law of entropy states that all motion will eventually come to a halt. For matter to appear out of nothingness is preposterous. This leaves only the final option.//
Disproved all of this. Also, have you ever heard of heat death? It basically states the universe will expand so far that all the energy in the universe will be so spread out that everything reaches absolute zero. Your entropy argument is disproved as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

//2. Motion
For there to be motion there must be an initial force. This force cannot come from emptiness. It must come from a creator, or supreme being.//
Infinite regress, what caused the creator? Disproved and rejected. See B for creator was always there.

om�ni�pres�ent (mn-prznt)
adj.
Present everywhere simultaneously.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
I have disproved all of my opponent's arguments and rebuttals, and mine still stand. I await my opponent's rebuttal.

L and Kira. Rulers of the New World Order.
Debate Round No. 2
YahwehIsMyRock

Pro

YahwehIsMyRock forfeited this round.
Atheism

Con

My opponent forfeited. Arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Crayzman2297 6 years ago
Crayzman2297
I am an athiest, however I agree that God does exist.
If a thing or being truly did not exist, then we would not be speaking of it.
We speak of God, therefore he exists, if only in the minds of the people.
Posted by YahwehIsMyRock 6 years ago
YahwehIsMyRock
@Atheism- I'm very sorry about the forfeit. I had concert I was playing in last week and totally forgot about the time restraint.
Posted by sherlockmethod 6 years ago
sherlockmethod
The forfeit is the only point I wish to address on this one as Pro instigated the debate and then left one round blank (rd 1) and skipped rd 3. How can I award any points to him? I see no reason to address any other issue. All pts Con due to forfeit.
Posted by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
Sigh, my opponent forfeited. How annoying.
Posted by Cogito-ergo-sum 6 years ago
Cogito-ergo-sum
@ Jack_Nixon

'I would recommend you back up your statements with some sort of fact' - hilarious since you fail to do this yourself in our debate.
Posted by Atheism 6 years ago
Atheism
By entropy argument, I meant the point he was inferring. I didn't mean the law of entropy didn't exist. That would be absurd.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 6 years ago
GeoLaureate8
@Jack_Nixon

That's because YahwehIsMyRock didn't say anything! Atheism doesn't have anything to go off of because Pro didn't even define God, so he probably went with the common definition.

God is commonly held to be omnipresent so indeed he must exist in all planes.
Posted by Mr_Jack_Nixon 6 years ago
Mr_Jack_Nixon
Atheism - Nowhere did YahwehIsMyRock say that God had to exist in all planes. Where did you pull such information from? Also, you provided no evidence regarding the pretense that God doesn't exist on the physical plane. Also, you provided no evidence for your P2.

I would recommend you back up your statements with some sort of fact, or at least logic that does not need an informational basis as strongly as yours.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
YahwehIsMyRockAtheismTied
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Vote Placed by Dingo7 6 years ago
Dingo7
YahwehIsMyRockAtheismTied
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Vote Placed by sherlockmethod 6 years ago
sherlockmethod
YahwehIsMyRockAtheismTied
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Vote Placed by FREEDO 6 years ago
FREEDO
YahwehIsMyRockAtheismTied
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