The Existence of God (Christian)
In this debate, intend to discuss the God of the Christian origin. As Con, I will be arguing that God does not exist. Thus my opponent will be arguing that God does exist. I wish to take this debate seriously, anyone that can prove that God is real, should accept.
God: A divine, supernatural, omniscient, omnipotent, personal, supreme being that is thought to have created life, moral values, and the universe.
Theist: Having the belief in a god/gods.
Atheist: Lacking the belief in god/gods.
Creationism: the belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution.
Evolution: the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.
Omniscient: All-knowing, knows past, present, future.
Omnipotent: having unlimited power; able to do anything.
Faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
First round is acceptance only. Second round will be for arguments only. Third round and on is for arguments and rebuttals.
A forfeit is an automatic loss.
My accepting the debate, you accept all the definitions and rules. If you would like to question a rule or definition, please specify in the first round.
Do not limit your duties. Many religious debaters limit their task to proving that there is a possibility that God exists. This is obviously unfair, for I am arguing God does not exist, my opponent is arguing that God does exist.
Thank you for accepting this debate Pro, and I look forward to its outcome.
“So let me ask you this one question. Do you hate God? And if you do why?”
Let me ask you this one question. How can I hate something that doesn’t exist?
“As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.”
“You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
“The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; “
From this evidence we can conclude without a doubt that God is deemed perfect. Something is deemed ‘perfect’ when it fits completely to an ideal standard of that thing, which entails that it cannot be any better. Therefore a perfect thing will have no flaws, defects, lacks, weaknesses, disadvantages; it will not possess any negative feature or lack of a positive feature that pushes it away from the ideal perfection. Since God is perfect, it cannot create imperfect things thus losing its perfection.
Things that we call "perfect" are usually exaggerations of real things. For example, you might wonder what a "perfect friend" might be like, yet no one has a perfect friend in real life. Anyone who says that they do is probably exaggerating. The same goes for intimate partners, children, pets, parents, bosses and employees, teachers, students, schools, jobs, and so on. Perfection in any of these categories tends to be an idealization of real things, where the good aspects are preserved and perfected while the bad aspects are eliminated. We can infer something said to be "perfect" is unlikely to exist because perfect things tend to be nonexistent idealizations of real things. Since perfect things are unlikely to exist and God is a perfect thing, it follows that it is unlikely that God exists.
Now onto my second point.
People seem to believe that God is the most moral being in the universe. Part of this belief is that God does not have certain kinds of feelings. Although God may have the feeling of anger, God does not have the feelings of lust or envy. Moreover, part of this ordinary concept of God is that God knows more than anyone else. In particular the ordinary man supposes that God knows (at least) all that men know. However these two beliefs, once correctly understood, are logically incompatible.
A person who knows lust and envy has at least had the feeling of lust or envy. Since God has all of men's knowledge and more, he must know lust and envy. But to say God has known lust and envy is to say that God has had the feelings of lust and envy. But this is incompatible with God's moral goodness. Hence God does not exist.
Now onto my last point.
The Christian God is defined as a personal being that is all-knowing. According to Christians, personal beings have free will.
In order to have free will, you must have more than one option, each of which is choice. This means that before you make a choice, there must be a state of uncertainty during a period of potential: you cannot know the future. Even if you think you can predict your decision, you can never know with entire certainty what the future holds since you have free-will.
A being who knows everything can have no "state of uncertainty." It knows its choices in advance. This means that it has no potential to avoid its choices, and therefore lacks free will. Since a being that lacks free will is not a personal being, a personal being who knows everything cannot exist. Therefore, the Christian God does not exist.
I would like to thank my opponent very much for accepting this debate. This is the end of my response as I have stated my three arguments. It is now time to hear my opponent’s arguments. I look forward to the next round and wish my opponent the best of luck.
The Holy Bible
Thank you for that short response.
“You basically said that if God really existed then there would be a perfect world with perfect morals am I correct?”
This sounds like a rebuttal, but whatever, yes that is what I said.
“But God gave us all something special. Free will.”
This sentence is a fallacy. If God is to exist at all, it impossible for anything to have free-will, so saying that God gave us free-will is false. God is defined as omniscient, knowing past, present, future. Since God knows what the future holds, then it is fixed. There is no changing this, no free-will. So it is impossible for him to give anyone free-will.
“Also, God did not create sin nor did He intend for there to be any sin in this world.”
God is omnipotent, so he has the power to erase sin. He is also omniscient, so he knew there would be sin if he created the world. He knew this yet went on to create it, so he did intend to have sin. Even if the impossible happened, and God did not intend to have sin. He could easily erase it.
“But when Adam and Eve's made their choice perfection went away.”
If God exists, then it is impossible to make any choices, so this sentence is a fallacy. God also knew that the perfection would go away.
This is the end of my rebuttal since Pro didn’t really state any real arguments.
It is impossible for a God to exist.
The Christian God is labeled as having these characteristics: omnipotent, omniscient, supreme, supernatural, personal being. If the being does not hold these characteristics, then this being is not a god.
Now I’d like to focus on omnipotence and omniscient. First of all, it is impossible for any being to be omnipotent. An omnipotent being is thought to be able to do anything. Including being a married bachelor. Since being a married bachelor is impossible to do, an omnipotent being cannot do everything, thus losing its omnipotence. Thus if this being loses omnipotence, it is not a God. God does not exist.
Also a being cannot be omnipotent and omniscient. An omniscient being does not have free-will because it knows what it will do in advance. Yet not having the ability of free-will contradicts omnipotence. A being cannot be omnipotent or omniscient at the same time, it is impossible, something has to give. Since something has to give, this being cannot be a god.
I look forward to my opponents rebuttal and arguments. Since my opponent hasn’t presented any arguments yet (I don’t think so) I look forward to them next round. Thank you!
hayhen13 forfeited this round.
TheodoreKreis forfeited this round.