The Instigator
hayhen13
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points
The Contender
Doktahman
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Existence of The Christian God

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
hayhen13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 556 times Debate No: 68751
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (4)

 

hayhen13

Con

In this debate, intend to discuss the God of the Christian origin. As Con, I will be arguing that God does not exist. Thus my opponent will be arguing that God does exist. I wish to take this debate seriously, anyone that can prove that God is real, should accept.



Definitions:


God: A divine, supernatural, omniscient, omnipotent, personal, supreme being that is thought to have created life, moral values, and the universe.


Theist: Having the belief in a god/gods.


Atheist: Lacking the belief in god/gods.


Creationism: the belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution.


Evolution: the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.


Omniscient: All-knowing, knows past, present, future.


Omnipotent: having unlimited power; able to do anything.


Faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.



Rules:



  • First round is acceptance only. Second round will be for arguments only. Third round and on is for arguments and rebuttals.

  • A forfeit is an automatic loss.

  • My accepting the debate, you accept all the definitions and rules. If you would like to question a rule or definition, please specify in the first round.

  • Do not limit your duties. Many religious debaters limit their task to proving that there is a possibility that God exists. This is obviously unfair, for I am arguing God does not exist, my opponent is arguing that God does exist.





Doktahman

Pro

Accept all definitions, happy debating.
Debate Round No. 1
hayhen13

Con

Thank you for accepting this debate Pro, and I look forward to its outcome.

Arguments:

“As for God, his way is perfect: The LORD's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him.”

Psalm 18:30

“You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

Matthew 5:48

“The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; “

Psalm 19:7

From this evidence we can conclude without a doubt that God is deemed perfect. Something is deemed ‘perfect’ when it fits completely to an ideal standard of that thing, which entails that it cannot be any better. Therefore a perfect thing will have no flaws, defects, lacks, weaknesses, disadvantages; it will not possess any negative feature or lack of a positive feature that pushes it away from the ideal perfection. Since God is perfect, it cannot create imperfect things thus losing its perfection.

Things that we call "perfect" are usually exaggerations of real things. For example, you might wonder what a "perfect friend" might be like, yet no one has a perfect friend in real life. Anyone who says that they do is probably exaggerating. The same goes for intimate partners, children, pets, parents, bosses and employees, teachers, students, schools, jobs, and so on. Perfection in any of these categories tends to be an idealization of real things, where the good aspects are preserved and perfected while the bad aspects are eliminated. We can infer something said to be "perfect" is unlikely to exist because perfect things tend to be nonexistent idealizations of real things. Since perfect things are unlikely to exist and God is a perfect thing, it follows that it is unlikely that God exists.

  • God is a perfect being that created the universe.

  • If God exists, then the world is perfect before the creation of the universe.

  • God would not make the world worse in virtue of his moral perfection.

  • If God exists, then the world is perfect during and after the creation of the universe.

  • If God exists, then the world is perfect.

  • The world is imperfect.

  • Therefore, God does not exist.

Now onto my second point.

People seem to believe that God is the most moral being in the universe. Part of this belief is that God does not have certain kinds of feelings. Although God may have the feeling of anger, God does not have the feelings of lust or envy. Moreover, part of this ordinary concept of God is that God knows more than anyone else. In particular the ordinary man supposes that God knows (at least) all that men know. However these two beliefs, once correctly understood, are logically incompatible.

A person who knows lust and envy has at least had the feeling of lust or envy. Since God has all of men's knowledge and more, he must know lust and envy. But to say God has known lust and envy is to say that God has had the feelings of lust and envy. But this is incompatible with God's moral goodness. Hence God does not exist.

  • If God exists, God has not had the feelings of lust or envy therefore not intruding on his moral existence.

  • If God exists, God exists as a being who knows at least everything man knows and more.

  • If God exists as a being who knows at least everything man knows, God knows lust and envy.

  • If God knows lust and envy, God has had the feelings of lust and envy.

  • God does not exist.

Now onto my last point.

The Christian God is defined as a personal being that is all-knowing. According to Christians, personal beings have free will.

In order to have free will, you must have more than one option, each of which is choice. This means that before you make a choice, there must be a state of uncertainty during a period of potential: you cannot know the future. Even if you think you can predict your decision, you can never know with entire certainty what the future holds since you have free-will.

A being who knows everything can have no "state of uncertainty." It knows its choices in advance. This means that it has no potential to avoid its choices, and therefore lacks free will. Since a being that lacks free will is not a personal being, a personal being who knows everything cannot exist. Therefore, the Christian God does not exist.

Conclusion:

I would like to thank my opponent very much for accepting this debate. This is the end of my response as I have stated my three arguments. It is now time to hear my opponent’s arguments. I look forward to the next round and wish my opponent the best of luck.

Doktahman

Pro

Doktahman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
hayhen13

Con

"A forfeit is an automatic loss."
My opponent has forfeited and therefore I win
Doktahman

Pro

Doktahman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
hayhen13

Con

Nothing to say.
Doktahman

Pro

Doktahman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Atheism_Debater 2 years ago
Atheism_Debater
Hello
Posted by CooCooClockofDoom 2 years ago
CooCooClockofDoom
Wow, another one of those "God's not Real" debates. Haven't seen one of these in about three hours
Posted by hayhen13 2 years ago
hayhen13
Nebiah,
I believe kingfannypack has defeated you but I will still continue. We observe the natural laws of the universe. We observe that everything abides by these laws. So we conclude that everything abides by these laws. Therefore a spiritual being that does not abide by natural laws usually won't exist.
Posted by UndeniableReality 2 years ago
UndeniableReality
How does observable evidence for the non-existence of something even make sense? Not all grammatically correct sentences have meaning.
Posted by kingfannypack 2 years ago
kingfannypack
A_Nebiah How about for once, you believers give evidence that is not based on your doctrine, the Bible, or what your pastor, bishop, or church leader has said?
Posted by A_Nebiah 2 years ago
A_Nebiah
How about for once, you non-believers show me your observable evidence that a god does not exist. I have yet to get an answer from any of you. You all seem to jump around the question to evade it.
Posted by hayhen13 2 years ago
hayhen13
Nebiah,
What makes your God real and the Christian god not? They both have the same chance of existing unless yours is supported by evidence. If it is then by all means please present it. But if not then Alahym, Christian God, leprechauns, unicorns, fairies, and flying pigs all have the same equally low chance of existing
Posted by A_Nebiah 2 years ago
A_Nebiah
As for the God of Christianity, no he doesn't exist, only in there fantasy world he exist. As for Alahym (God), HE does exist.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
hayhen13DoktahmanTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit from Pro.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
hayhen13DoktahmanTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Paleophyte 2 years ago
Paleophyte
hayhen13DoktahmanTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit by Pro
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
hayhen13DoktahmanTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: As per the rules, a forfeit is an automatic loss