The Instigator
jkgraves735
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
solar145254
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Exodus as Described in the Torah Did Not Historically Occur

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/10/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 225 times Debate No: 90990
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

jkgraves735

Pro

Greetings,

For this debate, I wish to debate with a fundamentalist religious individual, be it Orthodox Jew or Evangelical Christian, on the topic of the Exodus narrative as found in the Torah.

A historical Exodus, as defined, contains the following elements:

1) The existence of Moses as a historical character

2) The Enslavement of the Hebrews as a historical period in history

3) The historical occurrence of the ten plagues and the crossing of the Red Sea

4) The actual emigration from Egypt by the Israeli people was historical

For this debate, Con must argue that these 4 elements are historical and factual.

Pro must argue that these elements are not historical or factual.

To keep things flowing, we will deal with specific issues in specific rounds.

Round one is acceptance

Round two is only argument pertaining to issues 1 and 2 in the section above.

Round three is only arguments pertaining to 3 and 4

Round four is exclusively rebuttals, no new arguments

Round five is concluding statements

A few ground rules:

i) Use Yahweh or Elohim as they are used in the original text for source clarification.

ii) No personal attacks. Period. This includes discussion of one's salvation or eternal destination. Personal religious affiliation is a non-issue. Referring to each other as "Conservative" or "Liberal" as a descriptor is acceptable, but not as an insult.

iii) All interactions should be in accord with the teachings of James 3

Discuss accepting this debate in the comments. Not discussing acceptance and accepting anyways is an automatic forfeit.
solar145254

Con

By which collection of information do you go by when refuting the exodus, not theological but scientific. A round Earth in itself is not the only way the world is seen by the majority of people specifically those who follow religions. Why should these "facts" you have used be right. Let me explain, historians base their findings on the preset belief system of a limited history of a "round" planet within "space", while the religious would argue that accepted mainstream science isn't even fact. They would base their argument on not just theological doctrine but their religious experiences while they emphasise that worldly history isn't even true. For example, their history includes the "rise and fall of an angel called lucifer from a place called Heaven" not the dinosaurs and humans out of Africa. This is their belief system where the exodus wouldn't have even happened on a round earth it would have happened on a flat one with gardens above the sky. Under the argument for religion I would say first that the world is flat and the exodus happened on this kind of world. How can I prove that the world is different to what mainstream science justifies...how would you say solipsism or some other sort of cosmology isn't what's real. The exodus happened, but it didn't happen with the world your believing in existing, a world which followers of religion believe in being real. I will endovour to prove an Islamic cosmology after receiving your response.
Debate Round No. 1
jkgraves735

Pro

My opponent successfully broke multiple rules to begin. His argument does not involve Exodus, he did not discuss accepting the debate with me in the comments, and round 1 was not treated as an acceptance round.
solar145254

Con

It is an acceptance round as I have now begun to specifically discuss the exodus. Also it's religious COSMOLOGY that INCLUDES the occurring of the exodus that's why it simplifies into then specifically talking about the exodus. As you said whether it's the fundamentalist Christian version or the Islamic version. I am eager to refute that it did not happen that's why I did not want to be shunned away through "comments". Remember I'm coming from the angle of Islamic cosmology being real not mainstream science and their band of wacky archeologists.

Allah exists. How successful has Islam been throughout history. Prayers are answered all the time time not to mention the bounty of oil the Arabs were blessed with after being a struggling peoples saved from bedouin lifestyles. It's a blessing that inclines toward seeking from Allah being what helps and has a point to it.

The Qur'an is all to do with invoking for blessings. It works.

So Islam has a respectable look upon it. It's valued. Whether it's claims are to do with being cursed or being gifted...it works.

The world is not as mainstream scientists say. Sidelined scientists argue for physics such as idealism. The respectable claims of Islam say the world is flat. It also says that the exodus happened.

What are you going to support, mainstream sciences archeologists or respectable Islam's teachings.
Debate Round No. 2
jkgraves735

Pro

You did not keep or follow any of the rules of this debate. This is an automatic forfeit.
solar145254

Con

Yes I established which history to look at. Not mainstream sciences, but islamic theological history. All the such happened and I've proved that it is true.
Debate Round No. 3
jkgraves735

Pro

jkgraves735 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
jkgraves735

Pro

jkgraves735 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by jglass841 1 year ago
jglass841
Round one was supposed to be acceptance only.
Posted by solar145254 1 year ago
solar145254
Exactly so there is no exodus then, refuting the pro by supporting the pro
Posted by jglass841 1 year ago
jglass841
If the Earth is flat, how have people traveled in one direction to end up at the same position? Where do you suppose the edges are?
Posted by iTruthSeeker 1 year ago
iTruthSeeker
This debate should be interesting.. Best of luck!
No votes have been placed for this debate.