The Instigator
AlextheYounga
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
tyler90az
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

The Federal Reserve is a Cartelization Device

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
tyler90az
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/31/2012 Category: Economics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,761 times Debate No: 23968
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

AlextheYounga

Pro

The Federal Reserve is a cartelization device.

cartel- a group of independently owned businesses which come together for the purpose of reducing or eliminating competition between themselves to enhance their profit margin or to secure their positions in the market.


First Round Acceptance. Please be civil. Hope someone will accept. :)
tyler90az

Con

Good luck!
Debate Round No. 1
AlextheYounga

Pro

Thank you for excepting as I'm sure the topic of this debate came as quite a shock.
I guess I'll begin.

The Creation of the Federal Reserve
The story of the creation of the Federal Reserve is an interesting one. In 1910, seven men ventured to Jekyll Island, Georgia to create the Federal Reserve Act. They stayed at the Jekyll Island Club. (I've been there, its quite nice) These men created the Federal Reserve Act in secret. They all took on new names and disguised themselves to appear anonymous .

The seven men were:
Nelson Aldrich- Originally proposed the Federal Reserve System. He was the head of the National Monetary Commission. He was a very important business associate of J.P. Morgan. He was the father-in-law of John D. Rockefeller Jr. He eventually became the grandfather of Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller, which you can see he was named after.
Abraham Andrew-
Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, who later became a Congressman. He was very prominent in banking circles.
Frank Vanderlip- President of the National City Bank of New York, the largest and most powerful of all the banks in the country. He represented the financial interests of William Rockefeller and Kuhn, Loeb & Co.
Henry Davison- Senior partner of the J.P. Morgan company.
Charles D. Nortan- President of the First National Bank of New York.
Benjamin Strong- The head of J.P. Morgan's Trust Company, and 3 years later after the Federal Reserve System was created, he became the head of the system.
Parl Warburg- (probably the most important there because of his European banking knowledge) He was born in Germany and eventually became an American citizen. He is the brother of Max Warburg, a very wealthy German banker. He was a partner in Kuhn, Loeb & Co. and was a representative of the Rothchilds Dynasty in England and France.

http://en.wikipedia.org......
http://en.wikipedia.org......
http://en.wikipedia.org......
http://en.wikipedia.org......
http://en.wikipedia.org......
http://en.wikipedia.org......
http://en.wikipedia.org.....

Notice all of the different highlighted individuals and businesses these men represented. I'm sure many of them ring a bell. (Rockefeller's, J.P. Morgan, Rothchilds Dynasty, Kuhn Loeb & Co. Warburgs)
During this time period, one of the biggest issues was the issue of the money trust. The money trust was the trust of the wealthiest people in the world trying to control the worlds financial system. These people and businesses were the money trust. They represented 1/4 of the world's total wealth.

So, one might ask, "what's the problem with a bunch of people involved with banking sitting down and making a banking bill?"
These people were competitors! The only reason they would make a bill (that in fact eliminates the competition of banking) would be to create a cartelization device in order to destroy the competition.

Note: This is all documented history. I will provide sources to prove this all actually happened.
http://www.bigeye.com......

This is a quote from Frank Vanderlip in the Saturday Evening Post:
"I do not feel it is any exaggeration to speak of our secret expedition to Jekyll Island as the occasion of the actual conception of what eventually became the Federal Reserve System. We were told to leave our last names behind us. We were told further that we should avoid dining together on the night of our departure. We were instructed to come one at a time and as unobtrusively as possible to the railroad terminal on the New Jersey littoral of the Hudson where Senator Aldrich's private car would be in readiness attached to the rear-end of a train to the south. Once aboard the private car we began to observe the taboo that had been fixed on last names. We addressed one another as Ben, Paul, Nelson and Abe. Davison and I adopted even deeper disguises abandoning our first names. On the theory that we were always right, he became Wilbur and I became Orville after those two aviation pioneers the Wright brothers. The servants and train crew may have known the identities of one or two of us, but they did not know all and it was the names of all printed together that would've made our mysterious journey significant in Washington, in Wall Street, even in London. Discovery we knew simply must not happen."

They spent 10 days on this island and created the Federal Reserve Act. When they were done, Senator Nelson Aldrich took it upon himself to present the bill to Congress. (It was initially called the Aldrich Plan) Senator Nelson Aldrich was widely known for being involved with the money trust, and for this reason, the Aldrich Plan (the FED Act) did not pass initially.
They found two other millionaire senators named Robert Owen and Carter Glass (who were both also bankers). Their names on the bill made the bill totally acceptable.

The bill later passed in 1913. (Note that when the bill passed, it almost was a completely different bill. The Federal Reserve Act has been amended 199 times. Their powers have broadened incredibly and they're almost completely independent from Congress.)

Also note that the Federal Reserve actually isn't a federal agency. It is a partnership between the government, and the banks, (Cartels often work with the government to enforce their needs and wants. Example would be how drug lords pay off police to do their dirty work)


How the Federal Reserve Acts as a Cartelization Device.
This is how the Federal Reserve works:
They have the ability to create money from 'thin air' Their powers have become so broad that they can create money from anything they want to.
The Federal Reserve creates money in this way.
They can either monetize their own debt (or even nowadays, the debt of other countries. Its crazy what they can do)
But they basically just buy their own debt. (Which makes our money backed by debt...)
Or they can buy assets by buying up any individual firm they want. (And by buying up, I mean just creating money to pay for it.

Let me explain how the Federal Reserve buys assets.
The Federal Reserve increases the reserves of the banks under its jurisdiction by buying assets. It doesn't matter whom the Fed buys it from, whether its from the banks or from any individual or firm in the economy. Now, suppose a central bank buys an asset from a bank. For example, the Central Bank buys a building, owned by...idk Alexville Bank for $1,000,000. The building appraised at $1,000,000 is transferred from the Alexville asset to the Central Bank's asset. How does the Central Bank pay for the building? By simply writing out a check on itself for $1,000,000. Where did it get the money to write out the check? They just created it out of thin air i.e., by creating a fake warehouse receipt for $1,000,000 in cash which it does not possess. The Alexville bank deposits the check at the Central Bank, and the Alexville Bank deposit account at the Central Bank goes up by $1,000,000. The Alexville Bank's total reserves has increased by $1,000,000, upon which it and other banks will be able, in a short period of time, to multiply their own warehouse receipts to non-existent reserves manyfold, and thereby increase the total supply of the country manyfold.

What this basically is, is counterfeiting!!
The Federal Reserve has the ability to counterfeit money and ripple it down through the economy. This causes inflation which is also a tax. A regressive tax. I will provide evidence of this.


But the Federal Reserve eliminates competition of banks.
The Federal Reserve has the ability to increase or decrease the interest rates of banks, and also has the ability to basically funnel money into the banks as well. This gives the banks the ability to charge interest on money that comes from nothing. It also prevents banks from even being able to go out of business. This limits competition of banks because all banks are basically the same, and the FED prevents them from going under. This allows the banks to grow and increase their profits.

This is my argument. Your turn.

tyler90az

Con


You are basing your argument off conspiracy theories and not facts.


Shall we look at the facts?

In 1907 there was a banking panic that was going to spin the US into a depression. That was solved by bankers getting together and flooding the economy. Then in 1913 something had to be done to prevent future economic problems and stop bankers from having so much power. That is when the government created the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is responsible for handling monetary policy. Namely, maximum employment, stable prices and moderate interest rates. That was all laid forth in the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

Sources:
1)http://www.investopedia.com...
2)http://www.stlouisfed.org...
3)http://www.minneapolisfed.org...
4)http://www.britannica.com...


Cartel is not ran by a bunch of businesses

The Federal Reserve was created by the government. Although it was created to operate independently of the government. The reason that it was created to act independent of government is so that it would not be political. To have politics swaying the Federal Reserve would be disastrous to our economy. Just think about all the money that would flood into the system during elections year. Just think about the fact how the Federal Reserve would have no stability.

Other proofs it is not ran by businesses

1. U.S. government receives all profit - making 79 billion in 2010
2. Federal Employees
3. Members of Board of Governors chosen by Senate
4. Subject to Congressional oversight

Sources:
1)http://www.ushistory.org...
2)http://www.nytimes.com...

Rebuttal - the Federal Reserve was not created in secret:

The Federal Reserve Act was passed by the congress, senate and President. That does not look like something that was done in secret. To say that it was created by wealthy people to control the world is utter conspiracy. The sources you provide don't hold water because they are conspiracy websites.

They also did not even come up with the idea as they were not a alive when the first or second Central Bank was created. To apply that they had a diabolical plan to control the world through the Federal Reserve is false. That is prove by the fact that there were central banks prior to the Federal Reserve.

Sources:
1)http://www.bos.frb.org...
2)http://www.ushistory.org...
3)http://www.ushistory.org...


Rebuttal - the Federal Reserve was not created to drive out competition

1. Banks do not have to join the Federal Reserve
2. Federal Reserve banks(12) supervise many banks in district
3. More banks now then before Federal Reserve
4. 9459 Competitors(banks in US)

Sources:
1)http://www.richmondfed.org...
2)http://www.fdic.gov...
3)http://url.rexroof.com...

Rebuttal - great partnership between government and banks

1. Protects economy
2. Banks can Loan more money
3. Banks supervised for fraud
4. Federal Reserve can be audit's

Sources:
1)http://www.federalreserve.gov...
2)http://www.auditthefed.com...


As proved by the arguments made above the Federal Reserve is not a cartelization device. It was in no way created by a bunch of businesses to drive out competition. Per the definition my opponent gave, the Federal Reserve does not help secure anyone's position in market or drive up profit. By his own definition his arguments and mine prove that he Federal Reserve is not a cartelization device.
Debate Round No. 2
AlextheYounga

Pro

I provided more than enough sources to show that what I am explaining is in fact, FACT. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is all documented history. But, it also seems that my wikipedia links are not showing up properly. No matter. I'll post them on here.

The Federal Reserve is a partnership between the government and privately owned banks.
The Federal Reserve System's structure is composed of the presidentially appointed Board of Governors(or Federal Reserve Board), the Federal Open Market Committee(FOMC), twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation, numerous privately owned U.S. member banks and various advisory councils.[13][14][15]The FOMC is the committee responsible for setting monetary policy and consists of all seven members of the Board of Governors and the twelve regional bank presidents, though only five bank presidents vote at any given time. The Federal Reserve System has both private and public components, and was designed to serve the interests of both the general public and private bankers.
-Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org...


Nelson Aldrich
He was a party to the re-structuring of the American financial system through the institution of the federal income tax amendment, which he originally opposed, and the Federal Reserve System.
...his daughter, Abby, married John D. Rockefeller, Jr., the only son of John D. Rockefeller. Her son and his grandson Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller, served as Vice President of the United States under Gerald Ford.
-Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org...


Frank Vanderlip
In November, 1910, he was a member of the Jekyll Island group, a group of bankers that are believed to have formulated the outline to a plan that influenced the drafting of the eventual Federal Reserve Act.
-Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org...


Henry Davison
In 1909 he became a senior partner at JP Morgan & Company, and in 1910 he was a participant in the secretive meeting on Jekyll Island, Georgia that may have led to the creation of the Federal Reserve and has generated much speculation over the years.
-Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org...



Benjamin Strong, Abram Andrew, Charles D. Nortan, Paul Warburg (Look all on one page. Wow, how convenient)
The public was adamantly opposed to the establishment of a central bank. Strong, who was Vice President of Banker’s Trust of New York, was JP Morgan's emissary to the secret Jekyll Island(Georgia) expedition in 1910—one of the selected members who stayed at the luxurious Jekyll Island Hunt Club retreat in November for a private ten-day conference. Also in attendance were Paul Warburg, a recent immigrant from a prominent German banking family who was a partner in the New York banking house of Kuhn, Loeb & Co.; Senator Nelson Aldrich(Nelson Rockefeller was named after Aldrich, his maternal grandfather);A. Piatt Andrew, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury and Special Assistant to the National Monetary Commission (the only other NMC member besides Aldrich); and other bankers including Frank A. Vanderlip, president of the National City Bank of New York;Henry P. Davison, senior partner of J.P. Morgan & Co.; and Charles D. Norton, president of the Morgan-dominated First National Bank of New York.
-Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org...


Planning of the Federal Reserve System
At the end of November 1910, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich and Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury Department ([Special Assistant of the National Monetary Commission)] A. Piatt Andrew, and 6 more of the country's leading financiers (Frank Vanderlip, president of the National City Bank of New York, Henry P. Davison, senior partner of J.P. Morgan Company, and generally regarded as Morgan’s personal emissary; and Charles D. Norton, president of the Morgan-dominated First National Bank of New York. Joining the group just before the train left the station were Benjamin Strong, also known as a lieutenant of J.P. Morgan; and Paul Warburg, a recent immigrant from Germany who had joined the banking house of Kuhn, Loeb) arrived at the Jekyll Island Club to discuss monetary policy and the banking system, an event that led to the creation of the current Federal Reserve. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, the 1910 Jekyll Island meeting resulted in draft legislation for the creation of a U.S. central bank. Parts of this draft (the Aldrich plan) were incorporated into the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. On November 5–6, 2010, Ben Bernanke stayed on Jekyll Island to commemorate the 100-year anniversary of this original meeting.[9] The Conference was the first official confirmation of the revelations made initially in 1949 by Ezra Pound to Eustace Mullins in his work Secrets of The Federal Reserve and later reported by G. Edward Griffin in his book The Creature from Jekyll Island.
-Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org...

The Federal Reserve was not created by the government as you can see here.
And you should also take a look at that quote I put on from Frank Vanderlip. It basically proves everything I'm saying.


Rebuttals
1. U.S. government receives all profit - making 79 billion in 2010
2. Federal Employees
3. Members of Board of Governors chosen by Senate
4. Subject to Congressional oversight

The U.S. Government does not receive all profit. The banks receive a profit as well through reserves. They are able to funnel money into banks if needed.
Also, my opponent does not understand the full concept of counterfeiting. Counterfeiters all have the benefit of having that money FIRST. From there, it ripples down into the economy creating an uneven redistribution of wealth.

Please refer to my first paragraph because it proves it is a partnership.

This is from my opponent's source
"Rather than paying for funding, it simply creates the money that it needs at no cost."
http://www.nytimes.com...


"They also did not even come up with the idea as they were not a alive when the first or second Central Bank was created. To apply that they had a diabolical plan to control the world through the Federal Reserve is false. That is prove by the fact that there were central banks prior to the Federal Reserve."

This is completely irrelevant! Why does it even matter that these individuals were not alive 100 years prior?
(Although, their families were alive such as the Rothchilds Dynasty, the Warburgs, and the Rockefeller's. Although this is also irrelevant as well.)

1. Banks do not have to join the Federal Reserve
2. Federal Reserve banks(12) supervise many banks in district
3. More banks now then before Federal Reserve
4. 9459 Competitors(banks in US)

First of all, it doesn't matter if all banks do not have to join the Federal Reserve. All that matters is that the major banks do join the Federal Reserve and they benefit from this because the FED has the ability to funnel money into them if needed. Other banks that are not members of the Federal Reserve do not benefit, and banks that are not members, are incredibly smaller, almost insignificant.

Also, there are not as many banks as there were prior to the Federal Reserve. This is false. Prior to the Federal Reserve, there were over 3000 different currencies being used in the U.S. All of these currencies were different bank notes being issued by banks.

I have proved all of my points with sources that were not backed by conspiracy theories, but more from sites that we use everyday. (Btw, Wikipedia is a pretty good source. Just because certain people can edit it, doesn't make it any less credible than any other encyclopedia. Who do you think writes the encyclopedia? People)

These are not conspiracy theories. They are facts. Documented history. My opponent has done nothing to debunk them. I urge a Pro vote.













tyler90az

Con



My opponent seems to think a grand conspiracy was behind meetings by leaders of banking. Although meetings may have taken place. The fact my opponent wishes to portray them as a scheme to take over the world is false.


Partnership, ummm not really

The Federal Reserve is over all the banks in America. It is not a partnership in the sense that all member banks share equal profits. The dividend member banks receive is only 6% and they have to buy in. Whereas, the US government makes a majority of the profits.

In the definition he provided it says, "enhance their profit margin." The fact that the member banks only get a total of 6% back, refutes the point about enhancing their profit margin.

Sources:
1)http://www.nytimes.com...

Jekyll Island Group

My opponent asserts that because a bunch of bankers met to come up with a Federal Bank it is a cartel. Who else would we want to create a central bank? I can think of nobody more qualified then bankers. On top of that, the bill they drafted did not get accepted. Some parts were incorporated into the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 but not all.

In the definition he provided it says, "group of independently owned businesses which come together." A group of men who works towards drafting a bill for the government, does not qualify as a group of businesses coming together. It simply means they are the most knowledgeable on the subject. Presidents always have business summits in Washington and that is not a conspiracy.

Source:
1)http://www.jekyllislandhistory.com...

The Federal Reserve was created by the government

My opponent falsely assumes because knowledgeable people work on a bill for the government, it was not mandated by the government. The government was the entity that brought them together. In addition, they sent them to Europe to learn of their banking system. Furthermore, the leading person who pushed for the Federal Reserve Act was President Woodrow Wilson and of course it had to be passed by Congress and Senate.

That again refutes his point that a group of independently owned businesses created the Federal Reserve.

Sources:
1)http://en.wikipedia.org...

Rebuttal's to what my opponent has said

My opponent - "The U.S. Government does not receive all profit. The banks receive a profit as well through reserves. They are able to funnel money into banks if needed.
Also, my opponent does not understand the full concept of counterfeiting. Counterfeiters all have the benefit of having that money FIRST. From there, it ripples down into the economy creating an uneven redistribution of wealth.
"

My opponent does not understand Monetary Policy which is the policy the Federal Reserve controls. They allow banks to have more money by buying securities. They do this when they need to stimulate economy, recession. It allows the bank to loan more money, thus stimulating the economy. During a boom in the economy they can also buy securities or take money from banks. They do this to benefit the economy and not just to "make more money for banks."

Sources:
1)http://www.federalreserveeducation.org...
2)http://money.howstuffworks.com...

My Opponent - "This is completely irrelevant! Why does it even matter that these individuals were not alive 100 years prior?

It is very relevant that there was a central bank prior to these people being alive. It completely disproves the conspiracy that they created the Federal Reserve as a grand scheme to take over the world. The first and second Central Bank stand as proof that many people though a central bank was a great idea. Unless off course my opponent believes those were conspiracies also.

My opponent - "Also, there are not as many banks as there were prior to the Federal Reserve. This is false. Prior to the Federal Reserve, there were over 3000 different currencies being used in the U.S. All of these currencies were different bank notes being issued by banks. "

The fact that there more then 3000 different currencies is irrelevant. It is actually even a great reason why a Federal Reserve was needed. The point I made, that matters, is there are more banks now then before the Federal Reserve. That is relevant because it negates your argument that the Federal Reserve pushes out competition.

My opponent - "First of all, it doesn't matter if all banks do not have to join the Federal Reserve. All that matters is that the major banks do join the Federal Reserve and they benefit from this because the FED has the ability to funnel money into them if needed. Other banks that are not members of the Federal Reserve do not benefit, and banks that are not members, are incredibly smaller, almost insignificant. "

The Federal Reserve sells securities in order to stimulate the economy. It is not just to funnel money into them, so that way people will become rich. The Federal Reserve helps protect against that also, it acts a regulator of banks.


It is clear that I have refuted the assertion that the Federal Reserve is a cartelization device.

Refuted his definition:

The Federal Reserve was not created by a group of independently owned businesses.

The Federal Reserve was not created to drive out competition.

The Federal Reserve was not Created to maximize profits.
Debate Round No. 3
AlextheYounga

Pro

When did I ever say they were trying to take over the world!? My opponent is trying to portray me as only a conspiracy theorist to try to denounce my argument. He is completely over exaggerating my argument to try and make it seem not credible.

My opponent also believes that because there were central banks prior to the Federal Reserve, the Federal Reserve could not be a cartel because the prior central banks would have had to be cartels as well.
It is very relevant that there was a central bank prior to these people being alive. It completely disproves the conspiracy that they created the Federal Reserve as a grand scheme to take over the world. The first and second Central Bank stand as proof that many people though a central bank was a great idea. Unless off course my opponent believes those were conspiracies also.

Okay, ignoring the fact that my opponent has just used a couple logical fallacies in stating this, I will address the fact that not all central banks are exactly the same, especially the First and Second Bank of the United States.


There have been other central banks in the world. The first ever central bank was created in Europe in the late 1600's. It was really created to tax the people without them knowing it. When the taxes got too high, people began to revolt. They discovered the tax ceiling was around 40%. With the new central bank, they discovered they were able to tax their citizens 50%, 60%, 70%, and sometimes even 80% through the process of inflation.

The First and Second Bank of the United States held similar concepts to the Federal Reserve, but all in all, it was very different.


It seems I need to explain a little bit more in detail about money in the U.S. (I forgot to specify this earlier)
My opponent states that the government makes most of the profits.This is true. But lets see where that money goes after it is given to the government. The government then cycles it back into the economy (keep in mind this money is counterfeit money since the Federal Reserve creates money from 'thin air') No matter how this money is spent, it will eventually ripple down into the economy (unevenly) Even if the government spends this money in other countries, those dollars will be used to buy products elsewhere and maybe in the United States. This money will eventually get back to the United States (diluting the value of the currency)People then take this money, and they invest it in a bank. The Federal Reserve has now granted the banks of the United States to charge interest on money that really comes from nothing.That is how the banks benefit. Being able to charge interest on counterfeit money.


Jekyll Island Group
Yes, they were very educated on the subject of banking. But, we have to keep in mind that these people all representedthe money trust.And the public knew this, which is why they had to go in secret.

This is another exert I forgot to include in the last argument that explains this. This is from the same article in the Saturday Evening Post dated February 9, 1935.
"If it were to be exposed publicly that our particular group had gotten together and written a banking bill, that bill would have no chance whatever of passage by Congress."

Because the people realized that they represented the money trust(J.P. Morgan, Rothchilds, Rockefeller's, Kuhn Loeb & Co., and the Warburg's)

Why else would a group of people who represented competiting bankers come together to create a bill about banking that eliminates free market banking competition?

Elimination of competition
Let me just provide an example of what has happened before to show how they eliminate competition. From 1914-1919, the Federal Reserve increased the money supply by nearly 100% resulting in extensive loans from small banks to the public. Then in 1920, the Fed called in mass percentages of the outstanding money supply, thus resulting in supporting banks having to call in huge numbers of loans and just like in 1907 . . . bank runs, bankruptcy and collapse occurred. Over 5400 competitive banks outside of the Federal reserve system collapsed. This is just an example of how they can, and have eliminated competition of bankers.

Banking firms outside of the Federal Reserve do not benefit as much as the members of the Federal Reserve do.

When the Federal Reserve creates money, big bankers and government agencies are the first to receive it. This is why inflation is a tax. And this is their profit. Being able to create money from nothing.


The Federal Reserve was not created by a group of independently owned businesses.
It was created by people who represented the names of independently owned businesses. How else do businesses cooperate? By using people to represent them. I have provided more than enough evidence to prove this.

The Federal Reserve was not created to drive out competition.
The Federal Reserve counterfeits money. Counterfeiters always have the benefit of having that money first and being able to decide where that money directly goes. Banks are able to charge interest on money that comes from nothing. Competition is driven out because banks have the option to become members of the Federal Reserve where they are free from competition and free from the fear of going under.
The Federal Reserve was not Created to maximize profits.
As I already explained, the Federal Reserve counterfeits money. Counterfeiters benefit over the people who receive it later. The new counterfeited money ripples down the economy unevenly benefiting the government and the banks. The poor are left with higher prices and no higher profit. This is why inflation is a regressive tax.

My points have not been refuted. I urge a Pro vote.

tyler90az

Con

I am not trying to attack my opponent by saying he believes in conspiracy theories. On the contrary, I am actually, rebutting his agument which is complete conspiracy. Thus far, my ooponent has done nothing to prove this conspiracy theory to be tue.

Rebutt - Not counterfeit money and does not trickle down unevenly

More money gets circulated in economy by a few different monetary policies the Federal Reserve uses. In economics money has a multiplier effect, which means money does trickle through economy. The commercial banks, which the Federal Reserve lend to, have no way of knowing what the loans are spent on. However, when somebody takes out a loan they are usually spending money. Which then means, the multiplier effect goes into action.

1)http://money.howstuffworks.com...
2)http://www.investopedia.com...

Rebutt - Jekyll Island was not a grand cospiracy

With the quotes that you provided you proved that the Jekyll Island group did not know what they were doing. When they were first told to meet they had no idea they were working on the Fedral Reserve. That means they did not have a plot to come together and drive out competition or increase profit.

As far as them being bankers and representing their banks. They were only brought together by the government to draft a proposal. Similar to how experts on subjects are and should be consulted when bills are put together. Then after the experts are consulted, in this case bankers, the legislature can change the bill how they see fit. The experts ensure the most benefial bill is drafted and the legislature ensures that the experts did not make the bill favourable to them.

1)http://www.washingtontimes.com...


Rebutt - Federal Reserve does not eliminate competition

Opponent - "Banking firms outside of the Federal Reserve do not benefit as much as the members of the Federal Reserve do."

That means nothing, as any bank can choose to join the Federal Reserve. The fact that anybody can join the Federal Reserve is actually an argument that the Federal Reserve does not drive out competition.


Opponent - "When the Federal Reserve creates money, big bankers and government agencies are the first to receive it. This is why inflation is a tax. And this is their profit. Being able to create money from nothing."

How do you figure big bankers and govermen angencies are the first to receive it? The truth is, any bank that is in the Federal Reserve can take advantage of the Federal Reserve monetary policy changes.

1)http://en.wikipedia.org...

Rebutt

Opponent - "It was created by people who represented the names of independently owned businesses. How else do businesses cooperate? By using people to represent them. I have provided more than enough evidence to prove this. "

The part where my opponent fails is that they did not come together for the benefit of their banks. They were brought together by a government official to help the government. In other words, they were consulted on the matter since they are experts. The Federal Reserve was created by the goernment not by businesses.

Opponent - "The Federal Reserve counterfeits money. Counterfeiters always have the benefit of having that money first and being able to decide where that money directly goes. Banks are able to charge interest on money that comes from nothing. Competition is driven out because banks have the option to become members of the Federal Reserve where they are free from competition and free from the fear of going under. '

My opponent neglects the fact that anybody can join the Federal Reserve and most banks are part of the Federal Reserve. That then means, anybody has access to money the Federal Reserve puts into circulation. The loans are not limited to selcect banks.

1)http://www.newyorkfed.org...

Opponent - "As I already explained, the Federal Reserve counterfeits money. Counterfeiters benefit over the people who receive it later. The new counterfeited money ripples down the economy unevenly benefiting the government and the banks. The poor are left with higher prices and no higher profit. This is why inflation is a regressive tax."

My opponent is lacking basic Monetary Policy knowledge. Which makes it incredibly hard to argue against something that makes absolutely no sense. Monetary Policy does not help certain classes, it eithers helps the whole economy or hurts the economy.



My opponent has failed to prove his assertion. Namely that, the Federal Reserve was created by businesses, to increase profits and to drive out competition. In addition, last round he used no sources to back up his points, which means they have no credibility. If my opponent wants to put forth a substantial argument he needs to provide sources for them.


Debate Round No. 4
AlextheYounga

Pro

AlextheYounga forfeited this round.
tyler90az

Con

Vote based on the first four rounds! Vote con!
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
The Fed does many things wrong, but they tend to act to benefit politicians in power rather than the banks. Inflation, for example, is bad for banks because it takes money out of savings and puts it into fixed assets. The Fed is chronically inflating the currency to prop up the economy, especially in election years.

The whole historical derivation is unconvincing. How they were founded does not determine how they now behave. Physicians conspire to promote good medicine, because even though it seems that might reduce the demand for doctors, there is obvious benefit to good medicine. Bankers benefit from prosperity, so they have an interest in doing what's right for the economy. The Fed has political interests.

All conspiracy theories need hard evidence of collusion to achieve a goal. A memo from one Fed member to another saying bank profits would increase if we do X, Y, and Z would be convincing. A book, say, from an ex-member exposing conspiracy would be convincing. (Ex-mafioso write books revealing conspiracy.) That's was lacking.
Posted by tyler90az 5 years ago
tyler90az
No worries, they can just voted based on the first four rounds.
Posted by AlextheYounga 5 years ago
AlextheYounga
I'm sorry I forfeited one of the rounds. I was busy and forgot all about it.
Posted by tyler90az 5 years ago
tyler90az
It might be a day or two till I respond. Sorry
Posted by AlextheYounga 5 years ago
AlextheYounga
Sorry about the small text on my last argument. Idk how that happened.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
AlextheYoungatyler90azTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: How and why the Fed was founded is irrelevant to how they now act, so most of Pro's case is irrelevant. (For example, colleges founded to promote religion do not necessarily act in that mode now.) Pro needed to show that Fed action consistently works to increase bank profits, and he failed to prove that. Pro is advocating a conspiracy theory, a cartel is a theory, but he failed to prove conspiratorial action for a purpose.