The Instigator
harrytruman
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
ryanbriggs04
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Federal Reserve

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
harrytruman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/3/2015 Category: Economics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 410 times Debate No: 81924
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

harrytruman

Con

The Federal Reserve Debate:
"Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few power full men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate."- James A Garfield
Point 1: The constitution and constitutional money:
Article 1 Section 8 Sentence 5 of the constitution clearly states:
Congress shall have the power; to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, fix the standard weights and measures.
This meant that congress would issue the money, this is very simple to understand. Fix the standard weights and measures is what people in the 1700s called the gold standard, this put the power over the economy into the hands of the people. Gold or silver certificates were issued based on coin being deposited by people, which meant that certificate issue was based on the peoples decisions and coin supply. Coin supply was controlled by congress who ordered minting, gold/ silver miners provided gold and silver, and congress/ the treasurer were elected by the people, the people also chose which establishment"s to support. This gave 100% of the economic power to the people. The Federal Reserve ended this, it does not back its money by gold or silver so it is not dependent upon miners, it is separate from the government and the board of governors are not elected, which makes them not accountable to the people, and they will bail out any corporations which people choose not to support, preventing companies from shutting down effectively entrenches said corporations, exterminating any chance for new companies to be established. This has effectively eliminated our free market, creating a command economy, or in layman"s terms- communism.
Point 2: The constitution and Federal Power:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."- The tenth amendment.
We went through how the power to issue money is already ensured to congress, and how the Federal Reserve violates it by not being congress, and how, though the constitution can be amended, the Federal Reserve Act is not an amendment, if its name was "The blab la bla amendment", then sure, it changed the constitution and it is legal.
But now we will move to another way that the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional; in the whole constitution, you will never find a part which allows a central bank, or for the Federal Government to make a central bank. What you will find is some stuff about "the government of the people", and "ensuring the future of our children". So if the constitution does not authorize the Federal Government to make a central bank, even if it was part of the government which it is not, and the tenth amendment says:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
, then the power to create a central bank which can print its own money, outside of the power of congress, is given to "the states respectively, or to the people", this means that the only instance where a central bank is constitutional, is a state central bank like those before the Federal Reserve. This means that "The Texas Bullion Depository" is constitutional, and so is forming your own community currency, but in no way is the Federal Reserve constitutional. Though the constitution allows for amendments, the Federal Reserve Act was not an amendment, it was just an unconstitutional law
The constitution clearly lays itself out as the supreme law of the land, if any law is not in compliance with that; its void; it"s not a law. This means that "Legally- there is no Federal Reserve, and the Federal Reserve act is just a piece of paper. It does not mean anything, all it means is that a private army of bankers stole our money system, and the gold which once backed our money.
Point 3: The constitution and Fiat:
Article 1 Section 10 clearly states;
"No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."
There it is right there, "make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts". So the Federal Reserve is issuing fiat money while we have Article 1 Section 8 Sentence 5 saying that CONGRESS "shall have the power; to coin money, regulate the value thereof", and that "standard weights and measures", then we have Article 1 Section 10 saying that NO STATE "shall make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts". The Federal Reserve issues paper, so we can throw out the part of the constitution that says "to COIN money", they regulate the value of our money, not congress, so there goes "regulate the value thereof", and they made their paper "legal tender for all debts public and private", so we can throw out "NO STATE s make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts",. Oh, no, no we cannot- the constitution is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND, the Federal Reserve Act is VOID!
Point 4: Power and the power of the Federal Reserve:
Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely
In 1956, during the Korean war, steel mill workers decided to strike, so president Harry S Truman decided to send the US Military, and seize the steel mill, he was obcourse called a communist for infringing the right to property, and for just reasons, because he was in fact infringing the right to property, so the US Supreme court had hearings, and decided:
A state of national threat does not give the president a blank check
A spectator saw the seizure as;
More power than any good man would want, or any bad man should have
In 2009, the Federal Reserve said that in the case of an economic emergency, they can implement a martial law of a sort, that they do quite literally have a blank check as to how much money they can print, how much money they can give away, how low they can make interest rates, and how much inflation they can cause.
Yet we see no Supreme Court trials calling them communists even though they are a communist agency considering the type of power they have, and the extent to which they violate our constitution.
Point 5: History and the History of Central Banks:
There is nothing new under the sun, everything that is has been before and everything that was shall be again.
The first recorded central bank was the bank of England, the Bank of England was created by a group of British bankers who proposed the bill so that the British Government could loan money to finance the Seven Years War. The British crown ended up knee deep in debt, and had to raise extreme and unfair taxes to pay it all back, and this resulted in the reasonable revolt of the thirteen colonies.
The second central bank in recorded history was the Bank of North America, the bank issued 1.2 million dollars into our economy, considering that this is early America, and adapted to inflation, this would be a massive amount. Prices doubled, the nation was knee deep in debt; the Bank ruined America. Then Alexander Hamilton formed "The First Bank of the United States", in 1807, our economy fell apart as a result of over printing.
And yet, we attempted this same system by which we sell shares in our nation"s economy through a central bank; we founded the Second Bank of the United States, but in 1832 President Jackson vetoed a bill to recharter the bank with the reasonable concern of such an establishments power over elections by the money system, he was shot at but not hit in 1835. In 1837 we suffered the backlash with yet another recession.
Later we again attempted this system, we created the Federal Reserve. In the booming 20"s the Federal Reserve implemented loose monetary policy, causing low interest rates and a surplus of money, causing inflation which in turn caused stock prices to rise, which caused people to invest in stocks in hopes of them being worth more later, causing a bubble. The Federal Reserve implemented strict monetary policy, causing people to be unable to pay their loans, causing bank runs, causing the great depression. The same happened in 2009, the only difference is that people invested in houses rather than stocks.
In 2009, a series of transactions occurred, adding up to a grand total of 9 Trillion Dollars, this is no crazy conspiracy theory, and this is solid fact. There was in fact a senate hearing to asses this, the Inspector General, the person who is supposed to oversee all the Federal Reserve"s actions had no clue what happened. Then the Federal Reserve, six years after, thought that we would be so dumb as to believe that it was a bail out. There is only 9.36 trillion dollars in our economy, if this was a bail out, we would have 18.36 trillion in our economy. I don"t know what happened to it obviously, I don"t know if the Federal Reserve pocketed it, or if Alan Greenspan had a big gambling debt and was threatened with his kneecaps.
Point 6: Free trade and the Federal Reserve:
In point 1, I talked about how the Federal Reserve has eliminated our free trade. This is among the biggest point I have to make, the Federal Reserve"s monetary policy schemes and totalitarian authority over our economy, enables it to bail out any of its fellow money trust members. It entrenches its fellow private corporations; entrenchments, monopolies, and totalitarian powers are among the greatest threats to free trade, and fair trade, the Federal Reserve implements all three of these. They are a beurocratic, feudal, communist, privately owned autocratic agency, their very existence offends me. For a private corporation to implement powers it was never ensured, with no regard for our government, our constitution, or our laws, and implement a communist totalitarian authority foreign to our constitution. This is a system based upon the separation of powers, free trade, and the idea that every person ought to have an equal shot. Not totalitarian powers, communism, and the idea that the common man is "unable to make his own decisions", this is the most backward, discussing idea I have ever seen.
This is the most outrageous group of reprobates I have seen in my life; these commies have eliminated our free trade in favor of their own communist agendas! Their own despicable private interests! This abomination of ours called the "Federal Reserve" is nothing more than a group of reprobate con men and communists.
Point 7: The Federal Reserve and the Federal Government:
As we all know the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. Right about now you are saying "but it isn"t, the president and congress elect the board of governors bla blab la bla la", well I was surprised to find that it isn"t! The president only elects two of the 7 board of governors.
Here is how the Federal Reserve works:
So you have these banks that own stock in the Federal Reserve, they elect the director of their regional bank. The directors from the 12 regional banks get together in this thing called the "open market committee", which controls monetary policy. Then you got these guys called "the board of governors", there are 7 of them, 5 of which the president elects. So much for that "democratic money system" stuff they put in the history books.
So let me get this straight, we have the open market committee which decides monetary policy, which is controlled by the board of directors (to make it all the more confusing they made both a "board of directors", and a "board of governors"), which is in turn controlled by these BANKS, now all these schemes are finally making sense. Take 2008 for example, the banks tell the Federal Reserve to drop interest rates, then the banks start this "mortgage" campaign. The banks tell the Federal Reserve to tighten monetary policy, people cannot pay their loans off, and the banks get their houses for pennies on the dollar.
"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The Banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than beoracracy."- Abraham Lincoln.
ryanbriggs04

Pro

More power than any good man would want, or any bad man should have
In 2009, the Federal Reserve said that in the case of an economic emergency, they can implement a martial law of a sort, that they do quite literally have a blank check as to how much money they can print, how much money they can give away, how low they can make interest rates, and how much inflation they can cause.
Yet we see no Supreme Court trials calling them communists even though they are a communist agency considering the type of power they have, and the extent to which they violate our constitution.
Point 5: History and the History of Central Banks:
There is nothing new under the sun, everything that is has been before and everything that was shall be again.
The first recorded central bank was the bank of England, the Bank of England was created by a group of British bankers who proposed the bill so that the British Government could loan money to finance the Seven Years War. The British crown ended up knee deep in debt, and had to raise extreme and unfair taxes to pay it all back, and this resulted in the reasonable revolt of the thirteen colonies.
The second central bank in recorded history was the Bank of North America, the bank issued 1.2 million dollars into our economy, considering that this is early America, and adapted to inflation, this would be a massive amount. Prices doubled, the nation was knee deep in debt; the Bank ruined America. Then Alexander Hamilton formed "The First Bank of the United States", in 1807, our economy fell apart as a result of over printing.
And yet, we attempted this same system by which we sell shares in our nation"s economy through a central bank; we founded the Second Bank of the United States, but in 1832 President Jackson vetoed a bill to recharter the bank with the reasonable concern of such an establishments power over elections by the money system, he was shot at but not hit in 1835. In 1837 we suffered the backlash with yet another recession.
Later we again attempted this system, we created the Federal Reserve. In the booming 20"s the Federal Reserve implemented loose monetary policy, causing low interest rates and a surplus of money, causing inflation which in turn caused stock prices to rise, which caused people to invest in stocks in hopes of them being worth more later, causing a bubble. The Federal Reserve implemented strict monetary policy, causing people to be unable to pay their loans, causing bank runs, causing the great depression. The same happened in 2009, the only difference is that people invested in houses rather than stocks.
In 2009, a series of transactions occurred, adding up to a grand total of 9 Trillion Dollars, this is no crazy conspiracy theory, and this is solid fact. There was in fact a senate hearing to asses this, the Inspector General, the person who is supposed to oversee all the Federal Reserve"s actions had no clue what happened. Then the Federal Reserve, six years after, thought that we would be so dumb as to believe that it was a bail out. There is only 9.36 trillion dollars in our economy, if this was a bail out, we would have 18.36 trillion in our economy. I don"t know what happened to it obviously, I don"t know if the Federal Reserve pocketed it, or if Alan Greenspan had a big gambling debt and was threatened with his kneecaps.
Point 6: Free trade and the Federal Reserve:
In point 1, I talked about how the Federal Reserve has eliminated our free trade. This is among the biggest point I have to make, the Federal Reserve"s monetary policy schemes and totalitarian authority over our economy, enables it to bail out any of its fellow money trust members. It entrenches its fellow private corporations; entrenchments, monopolies, and totalitarian powers are among the greatest threats to free trade, and fair trade, the Federal Reserve implements all three of these. They are a beurocratic, feudal, communist, privately owned autocratic agency, their very existence offends me. For a private corporation to implement powers it was never ensured, with no regard for our government, our constitution, or our laws, and implement a communist totalitarian authority foreign to our constitution. This is a system based upon the separation of powers, free trade, and the idea that every person ought to have an equal shot. Not totalitarian powers, communism, and the idea that the common man is "unable to make his own decisions", this is the most backward, discussing idea I have ever seen.
This is the most outrageous group of reprobates I have seen in my life; these commies have eliminated our free trade in favor of their own communist agendas! Their own despicable private interests! This abomination of ours called the "Federal Reserve" is nothing more than a group of reprobate con men and communists.
Point 7: The Federal Reserve and the Federal Government:
As we all know the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. Right about now you are saying "but it isn"t, the president and congress elect the board of governors bla blab la bla la", well I was surprised to find that it isn"t! The president only elects two of the 7 board of governors.
Here is how the Federal Reserve works:
So you have these banks that own stock in the Federal Reserve, they elect the director of their regional bank. The directors from the 12 regional banks get together in this thing called the "open market committee", which controls monetary policy. Then you got these guys called "the board of governors", there are 7 of them, 5 of which the president elects. So much for that "democratic money system" stuff they put in the history books.
So let me get this straight, we have the open market committee which decides monetary policy, which is controlled by the board of directors (to make it all the more confusing they made both a "board of directors", and a "board of governors"), which is in turn controlled by these BANKS, now all these schemes are finally making sense. Take 2008 for example, the banks tell the Federal Reserve to drop interest rates, then the banks start this "mortgage" campaign. The banks tell the Federal Reserve to tighten monetary policy, people cannot pay their loans off, and the banks get their houses for pennies on the dollar.
"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The Banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than beoracracy."- Abraham Lincoln.
Debate Round No. 1
harrytruman

Con

YOU TOOK HALF MY DEBATE AND POSTED IT AS YOUR DEBATE!!!!!!!r
Debate Round No. 2
harrytruman

Con

Yes you did.
ryanbriggs04

Pro

I will admit, I used your section of your arguement.
Debate Round No. 3
harrytruman

Con

I win unless you provide a debate.
ryanbriggs04

Pro

I say you win, you provided a lot I plagiarized and I don't know anything
Debate Round No. 4
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by ryanbriggs04 1 year ago
ryanbriggs04
The instigator wins
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by tajshar2k 1 year ago
tajshar2k
harrytrumanryanbriggs04Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro seemed to have lost his mind, and copied Con's case...