The Instigator
Pro (for)
6 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

The Flash can defeat The Avengers

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,858 times Debate No: 48396
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)




First round is for acceptance.

The Avengers' roster is composed of the members in the movie; Thor, Hulk, Captain America, Hawkeye, Iron Man, and Black Widow. Note, their powers are not limited to what is shown in the movies, but they are to their classic versions (i.e. Rune King Thorn is not Thor).

The Flash is Wally West and because The Flash is merely a persona granted powers by the Speed Force, any character using powers granted by the Speed Force can be attributed to Wally West.

All characters are limited to their basic weaponry (i.e. The Flash has used a Green Lantern's ring, but this is not standard and no feat of Flash with a lantern ring is valid).

The location is an non-destructible Earth (in case Hulk gets strong enough to potentially destroy it, for example).

All characters are blood-lusted and The Avengers have no prep-time.
A loss is determined by death, KO, incapacitation (i.e. frozen), or removed from battle field (i.e. Hawk-eye being thrown into space with no way back).
Debate Round No. 1


Con accepted this debate as part of his initial three debates of DEBATE.ORG.

Sufficient enough for me to say Flash is better, unless Con plans on participating.


First round was for acceptance, I don't see why posting a YouTube video is a problem.

The Flash can only outrun. The only thing that's good for is dodging Hawkeye's arrow.

If he tries to run in a straight line and smash into someone, this would only be useful if he hits Hawkeye since Black Widow would simply break his neck in a second, Hulk and Captain America are too strong to smash and Iron Man would be air-borne for as much of the fight as he could.

Iron Man has near-perfect aim and flash has energy to run out of. Hulk, a full anger, can also run very fast. Black Widow and Hawkeye probably won't be much use unless Flash stops beside Black Widow or within shooting range of Hawkeye.

You defined defeat as being thrown into space but the Flash can't physically throw anyone into space or incapacitate even one of The Avengers.

Thor can send lightning bolts after the guy and is a Demi-God. This means Flash can't run in a straight line for too long or lightning will zap him to death.
Debate Round No. 2


Apologies for thinking Con forfeited the debate, since it came with no acceptance note attached to the video I mistook his position, as is, I've lost a round. I'll begin by posting an initial display of powers that Flash has and address the problems of Cons post within them.

Flash's powers comes from the Speed Force.

I. Speed Force

The Speed Force is essentially the source of all speed that has its own location/dimension that exists in another plane of reality. [1]

Notable Speed Force powers are:

Infinite Mass Punch (IMP): As Flash begins traveling at the speed of light he gains relative mass of such a great speed allowing him to strike with blows with the force of "a white dwarf star." [1][2]

Speed Steal: Allows Flash to rob objects of their kinetic energy and inclusive he could use it to accelerate his own movements. [1][3].

Accelerated Healing: Flash can heal from deadly injuries by speeding his healing process. This takes no energy out of him because he uses the Speed Force rather than his own energy (such as metabolism). [1]

Intangibility: Flash has total control of his molecules and can vibrate through objects and have objects vibrate through him. [1][4]

Speed Force Aura: This is passive and it's what protects Flash when he takes damage. He's able to resist a great deal of damage because of it (such as getting hit by Zoom). [5]

Super Speed: Enables Flash to run faster than the speed of light. [1][6]

II. Ways to defeat The Avengers

Just to name a few.

1 - Speed steal all of the kinetic energy from the Avengers.
2 - IMP all of the Avengers. Before saying Hulk could take this, Flash could potentially IMP Hulk a thousand times in under a second. [7]
3 - Send them into the Speed Force (which would remove them from the battlefield).
4 - Phase out their brains.[8]

The Avengers have no way of stopping Flash from doing any of the above and no way of touching Flash. Flash moves faster than they could even perceive.[9]

III. Rebutting Round 2

Black Widow could not break Flash's neck as the Speed Force Aura is too strong. Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Iron Man all have human senses, which would mean that they wouldn't be able to perceive Flash's movements and they are down for the count. Captain America is peak human and thus he's also not at the necessary level. Hulk could potentially reach a state in which he may perhaps contend with Flash (supposing he gets angry enough, I suppose), but it's massively doubtful he could withstand an IMP, let alone a barrage while in Savage Hulk state. I see no reason as to why Thor's status as an Asgardian would make him invulnerable to having his speed stolen or his organs phased through his body, rendering him incapable of fighting or dead.

[1] -
[2] -
[3] -
[4] -
[5] -
[6] - (Light can't even travel a molecule in a zeptosecond)
[7] -
[8] -
[9] -

I look forward to Cons reply.


Thor's hammer is too heavy, flash will cry like baby if he drops on his toe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Debate Round No. 3


Thor's hammer falling on Flash's foot wouldn't work due to intangibility.
Intangibility: Flash has total control of his molecules and can vibrate through objects and have objects vibrate through him.

Flash has the ability to phase through objects and become intangible. Thor's hammer would pass through Flash's foot.

None of the ways in which Flash can defeat the Avengers were addressed by Con and they all still stand true.

1 - Speed steal all of the kinetic energy from the Avengers.
2 - IMP all of the Avengers. Before saying Hulk could take this, Flash could potentially IMP Hulk a thousand times in under a second.
3 - Send them into the Speed Force (which would remove them from the battlefield).
4 - Phase out their brains.

Flash is also too fast for any of the Avengers.


Okay, in all seriousness Hulk is literally invincible and get angrier the more he's hit. Flash would be hitting beyond speed of light and Hulk would heal if he ripped his heart out so Hulk is the deciding factor and none of any of con's arguments matter.

Hulk is the almighty, indestructible and infallible opponent. Hulk is always angry anyway, even the original Hulk is genetically prone to an aggressive response to any situation of danger, he doesn't panic; he just rages instead. Evidence is in the sources.

Flash is also not full effective as my opponent thinks, Flash's brain works at human speed despite what his body is capable of. He might pause between fights to plan his next move, giving a split second for a thunderbolt shot from Thor or an arrow shot from Hawkeye.

In conclusion, Hulk is the single argument I've fallen back on and I commend my opponent for thwarting me on all other opponents but he said all Avengers and Hulk is definitely indestructible. Flash can do anything to Hulk and Hulk will heal from it and be angrier than before.

Thanks for this debate.

Vote for Hulk.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by bladerunner060 2 years ago
RFD 1/2:

I will admit--I'm a Flash fan. However, I can judge this debate on its merits--I will be noting some inaccuracies on Con's part at the end, though.

Con did not use the first round as acceptance, which was a stated rule. While sometimes a degree of latitude might be given such that conduct won't be awarded for a move like that, Con chose to post a completely unrelated video. If there had been a flash joke in there, at least, I would be less likely to award conduct. But, troll debate or not, it seemed ridiculous. Con then tried to troll R3, making a frankly lame joke. Had it been funnier, I might have had more patience for it, but considering Pro actually put effort into this (admittedly silly) debate, it seemed ridiculous. Taking all that into account, conduct to Pro. A note to Con: You gots to work on yo trollin'.

Pro presented several aspects of the speed force, and Wally West's powers in relation to, and gave justification for defeat of the Avengers, including the Hulk. Con claims "Hulk is definitely indestructible", but that's not something he actually justifies, particularly in the context that Pro provides regarding the IMP, and the phasing out of organs (including the brain). Con conceded all Avengers but Hulk, and insufficiently supported the idea that the Hulk is truly indestructible. He also failed to account for the idea of sending Hulk into the Speed Force, which would, as Pro notes, remove him from the battlefield.

Thus, arguments to Pro.

Sourcing to Pro, as well, for actually providing some that were reliable and directly related to aspects of his case. Con threw in 2 sources at the end, there, but they weren't really in support of anything, and I suspect they were for "form's sake".
Posted by bladerunner060 2 years ago
RFD 2/2:

On a final note, to Con: You are mistaken regarding Wally West's "brain work[ing] at human speed". This would, in general not make sense (how could he avoid anything if he's moving at lightspeed?), and simply isn't true. As it was brought up in the last round, your opponent could not rebut it, but I thought it worth noting. Further, in R2 you note that "The Flash can only outrun." Pro rebutted this by explaining Flash's powers, but you probably should have been aware of all that already, don't you think? When you said "Hulk ... can also run very fast" I hope you weren't trying to imply he could possibly reach a comparable speed to the Flash. Also, in your final source you tried to link to Barry Allen (though thanks to the way DDO does links, you actually just linked to the Flash wiki page, with (Barry Allen) next to it. The debate was specifically about Wally West. Honestly, the biggest argument you left on the table was that, as of right now in DC continuity, Wally West does not (<em>and has never</em>, thanks to the New 52), had speed powers (something which adds to my own general frustration about the New52).
Posted by Zhege 2 years ago
Your argument should have been in Round 3 rather than Round 4 for me to have been able to refute. Since it's not, I'll clear up some misunderstanding in your post.

Flash does not think at the normal human capacity at all. One of my links even shows him talking and eating while the world is frozen around him. Here's another one He's perceives at less than an attosecond, please read up on how slow that is at the bottom of the image.

As for Hulk surviving his heart being removed (through phasing), all of his organs would be removed before he realized what happens. The only thing he'll leave is Hulk's green pigment. Not to mention being hit by an IMP (white dwarf star equivalent) would send Hulk flying into space. Likewise, Flash could just remove all kinetic energy from Hulk. None of my points were touched.
Posted by Zhege 2 years ago
Others beware, he's only doing this to get his three debates in.
Posted by Zhege 2 years ago
Do you plan to forfeit?
Posted by Zhege 2 years ago
Arg, why'd you have to post the YouTube video?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.