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The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

The Force: A Nerdy Star Wars Debate

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Post Voting Period
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after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/12/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,141 times Debate No: 43428
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (2)





After participating in the Mace Windu vs. Yoda debate, I have come to realize how much I enjoy nerding out like this. Hence, I have instigated this debate. It should be impossible to accept, so please post a comment if you wish to accept.


The Unifying Force theory more accurately describes the Force than the Living Force Theory.


Accurate - correct; with few or no errors
Describe - to explain something; to characterize something


Unifying Force:
Living Force:


1. BOP is shared: Pro must argue for the accuracy of the Unifying Force; Con must argue for the accuracy of the Living Force
2. No forfeits
3. No trolling
4. Wookieepedia, the official Star Wars Movies, the official Star Wars: The Clone Wars episodes, and Canon texts may be cited as evidence. Anything that is not canon is not a valid source.
5. No new arguments may be presented in a debaters final speech
6. Violation/non-acceptance of any of the R1 Set-up and Rules constitutes a 7-point loss


R1: Acceptance. Con may choose to present arguments in this round, but must then forgo posting arguments in R5.
R2: Arguments
R3: Arguments
R4: Arguments
R5: Arguments


in advance to my opponent and to my judges. I look forward to a nerdtastic debate!


I accept.
Debate Round No. 1


Thanks to Pots for accepting this debate! I will use this round to explain the theory of the force, and to outline what the Unifying Force theory advocates. This round will provide the background information and set-up necessary to construct my arguments.

Part One: Providing Background


"The Force was a metaphysical, binding, and ubiquitous power that held enormous importance for both the Jedi and Sith monastic orders. Known as the Way in ancient times, the Force was viewed in many different aspects, including, but not limited to, the light side, the dark side, the Unifying Force, and the Living Force...The latter two aspects were defined by prominent Jedi philosophies: The Unifying Force essentially embraced space and time in its entirety while the Living Force dealt with the energy of living things...the Force partially existed inside the life forms that used it, and drew energy from their emotions." [1]


"The concept of the Unifying Force was that the Force is a single entity and has neither a light nor a dark side. The Unifying Force was viewed as a deity that neither had sides nor chose them, treating all beings equally. Followers of the Unifying Force always kept their eyes open for future possibilities." [1] Jedi that believed in the Unifying Force "focused on the flow of time as a whole" rather than on the moment. [1, 2]


"Proponents of the Living Force view...espoused a philosophy of "living in the moment," relied heavily on their instincts and concentrated more on sensitivity to living things, rather than fulfilling destiny, which was one of the main tenets of the Unifying Force philosophy." [3] "The Living Force was thought to be present in most living beings, surrounding and penetrating them, thus making all living things connected by it. The Jedi believing in the Living Force relied on their instincts and were attuned to other living beings around them." [1]


The Unifying Force is more forward-looking. It asserts that people have destinies, that the future takes precedence over the moment, and that there is no light side or dark side. Several prominent supporters (in part or in whole) of this theory include Darth Sidious, Vergere, and Yoda. [2]

The Living Force, however, is more grounded in the present. It asserts that focus should be concentrated on the now, that there is a definitive dark and light side, and that fulfilling destinies is not an important goal. One prominent supporter was Qui-Gon Jinn. [3]

I will be asserting that the Unifying Force is a more accurate descriptor of the Force than the Living Force is. This does not mean that I must show that the Unifying Force is 100% accurate; merely, I must show that it is more accurate than the Living Force.

Part Two: Outlining my Arguments

There are several key things that we can point to in order to support the notion of the "Unifying Force." They include: (1) visions and prophecies, (2) the Force itself (tool), (3) the Force itself (nature).


One of the core tenets of the Unifying Force is that visions and prophecies matter. I can cite several empirical examples of the importance of visions and prophecies in Star Wars: Anakin's visions regarding the death of Padme [4] and the Prophecy of the One Who Will Bring Balance [5].

Another example can be seen in Darth Traya's ability to predict (correctly) the fall of the last Mandalorians thousands of years into the future. [6]

The impact of this analysis is this: that the Force is forward-looking, and not locked into the present. It also implies that certain people have destinies to fulfill.


Many scholars of the Force, from Plo Koon to Vergere, saw the force merely as a tool. We can back this analysis up with the following logic:

If the force had inherent dark or light qualities, then only dark-side users should be able to perform acts of dark-side force usage. Force lighting, a decidedly dark act, can be used by light-side users, like Plo Koon [7].

If all realms of the force are open to all users, regardless of their affiliation, then it seems that the force is really not as delineated as some would claim.

The force is like a tool. Take a hammer, for instance. I can use a hammer constructively, to repair something. I can also use it destructively, to destroy something. The hammer is neither good, nor bad. It all depends on how it is used. This is the case with the Force.


The Force does not pick sides. The Force seeks balance--it does not seek domination by the Light or by the Dark. Rather, it allows evil and good to ebb and flow almost cyclically. If the Force really did pick sides, as the Living Force would suggest, then why would the Force not be more vigorous in combatting the Dark Side?

Thus, I rest. I apologies for the brevity of my arguments. I have been way too busy lately...


Con may attempt to argue that we should prefer the Living Force theory because it had more adherents. Firstly, this is an ad hominem fallacy, and secondly, the New Jedi Order adopted the Unifying Force theory. [8] The Unifying Force also had many estimable proponents, as noted earlier.

Part Three: Sources

1 -
2 -
3 -
4 - Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
5 - Episode I: The Phantom Menace
6 -
7 -
8 -


Sorry bsh. I just can't find the time to sit and do this debate. I'm really sorry. All of my activity on here is mobile, between work, school, and irl stuff. I'm taking a hiatus from debating altogether. I'm so sorry.
Debate Round No. 2


Sure. Thanks for letting me know, Pots.

Could you just write "Pass" for each round, that way I don't have to wait 3 days for each round to expire?


Pass. I'll challenge you on this topic during spring break in March. How does that sound?
Debate Round No. 3



March is bad...the debate team I coach will be prepping for State then. We'll have 2nd and 5th seeds in LD, and 6 people make CatNats, so we have a great shot a qualifying them. I will be super busy helping them. June is my first available month, unless one of them quals to NFL Nats...omfg


I am spending June with some friends in Morocco, so that won't work. What'd ya say we take this topic into the forums? I can find the time to talk about it there, and I would really like to hammer this out with you. My perspective is that the whole underlying moral of the Skywalker legend ( the six films ) is the idea that the living force is more accurate than the unifying force.

P.S. Your Yoda vs Mace Windu debate was totally kick@$$. I tip my hat.
Debate Round No. 4


@Pots - sure, we can do that. Thanks re: the compliment. Windu is just so more awesome than Yoda, IMHO. Yoda's cool, but Samuel L. Jackson just kicks butt.

@Judges - Anyway, please VOTE PRO as I presented arguments in support of the resolution.


I concede that pro gets the votes.
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by PotBelliedGeek 2 years ago
Okey dokey! I can debatw any starwars or LOTR subjects. I've got to read up on Harry Potter, I've only seen the films. I can also debate on the Canon Sherlock Holmes, but not modern incarnations.
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
Pots - please wait a day or two before accepting. Thanks!
Posted by bsh1 2 years ago
@Pots - Sure; we can debate this. However, I currently have three active, competitive debates going on, so I'll send you the challenge at the last minute.
Posted by SeventhProfessor 2 years ago
If you like debating nerdy subjects, I'll debate you on anything involving Harry Potter, Doctor Who, Avatar: TLA, Sherlock, or Starkid.
Posted by PotBelliedGeek 2 years ago
ok I really want to take this debate! But for some reason it says I don't meet your criteria? Am I not nerdy enough?
Posted by Oromagi 2 years ago
Isn't the hubris of Universal Force, its emphasis on destiny fulfillment and its subsequent downfall one of the major themes of the movies? If George Lucas thinks that Living Force Theory wins out over Universal Force Theory, are we in any position to disagree?
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Wow... Too much nerdiness... I'll have to read this, just to understand it.
Posted by Gokualwayswin 2 years ago
A force that destroys stuff DONT stare in my comment idk how the force works lol.
Posted by Tophatdoc 2 years ago
Interesting topic, I will be watching this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Tophatdoc 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Bit of a disappointment with the forfeit. But at least Con acknowledged it rather than disappearing.
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit