The Instigator
max_p_robertson
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Plato_ATODT
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Gatling gun is a more effective battle field weapon than the Vickers machine gun

Do you like this debate?NoYes+3
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
max_p_robertson
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/20/2011 Category: Technology
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,814 times Debate No: 18412
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

max_p_robertson

Pro

I think that the Gatling gun is a more effective battle field weapon than the Vickers machine gun

Round 1 is not for acceptance
you state you're case now
(I want the privilege of going second)

Thank you
Plato_ATODT

Con

I will be arguing that the Vicker's machine gun is more effective.

Vicker's machine gun - http://en.wikipedia.org...

Gatling gun - http://en.wikipedia.org...

For an adequate comparison, we should compare them in the safe time frame. I recommend WWII for both. I will allow my opponent to go first.
Debate Round No. 1
max_p_robertson

Pro

first of all the Gatling gun is more accurate
no water is needed for operation
endless firing with out reloading
no jam trouble
No recoil
Up to 900 rounds per minute
10 barrels
The cocking handle on the Vickers can take of a finger
the Gatling design is not obsolete
Plato_ATODT

Con

I will go over each line of my opponent's argument, though out of order.

"No recoil"

This is false based on the laws of physics, as well as observed. I will address both. According to physic, every force has an equal and opposite force. http://www.qrg.northwestern.edu...
Observed, we can look at the GAU-8 on the A-10 Thunderbolt. Pilots have observed that the very force of this gun slows their plane in flight. http://www.globalsecurity.org...

"Gatling gun is more accurate."

Due to higher recoils, as shown above, the gun is naturally less accurate, and so more precautions need to be made to adjust for this. Going back to older gatling guns, because they were hand-cranked, that very motion caused inaccuracy.

"no water is needed for operation"

Water cooling is more efficient. This is observed in nearly all heated objects, from vehicles to high end computers.

"endless firing with out reloading"

This is, of course, false. Since the gatling gun uses physical ammo, that ammo will eventually deplete and need replacing.

"no jam trouble"

This is false. Due to having similar basic designs, but with more moving parts, namely the rotating barrels, gatling guns have a greater jamming problem. This is evident by the fact that the gatling gun was retired back in 1911, to be replaced by machine guns, which operated better. The gatling gun was not relooked at until 1950's.

"Up to 900 rounds per minute"

Because there is a recoil after every bullet, the more bullets per minute means a greater total recoil, and less accuracy. It is well observed that 'burst' firing is more effective than a constant stream. Gatling guns are not as efficient in performing that, due to their moving parts.

"10 barrels"

More barrels does not equate to a better weapon.

"The cocking handle on the Vickers can take of a finger."

The rotating barrels can also pinch off a finger, as well as cause the gun to misfire, resulting in more harm to operators.

"the Gatling design is not obsolete"

This is false. The gatling gun was discontinued in 1911. I believe my opponent is wishing to argue rotary cannons, rather than gatling guns. If this is the case, my opponent should have corrected me when I linked to gatling guns last round.

I will now present a case for why the Vickers is more effective.

1) Size, the vickers is much smaller and so can be taken into more situations for a greater range of uses. Having a powerful weapon that cannot be used often is not effective. A less powerful weapon with a wider range of uses is more effective.

2) Reliability, back in WWI, a case where the British fired over 1 million rounds and wore through over 100 barrels over 12 hours of continuous use and not a single break down. Referenced in 'weapons and war machines.'

3) burst effect, the vickers is capable of utilizing bursts of shots. Firing 5 to 15 bullets at a time, then releasing the trigger. The gatling gun is not capable of doing this.
Debate Round No. 2
max_p_robertson

Pro

No recoil"

You are right but what I was referring to is that the operator feels no recoil because of the mount. So the operator can fire steadily

"Gatling gun is more accurate."

Since no recoil is felt the gun is more accurate
If you watch a Gatling gun firing in slow motion( http://www.spike.com... watch the gatling gun part)

"no water is needed for operation"

You are right however most machine guns today have replaceable barrel's. The idea being that wile one of the barrels is firing the other is cooling off( kind of similar to the Gatling gun don't you think )
And by the way in the middle of a waist land in Germany (when you said world war 2 in Europe, I though Germany) their is no water or supply roots
And if you pee in the cooling shroud you damage the gun

"endless firing with out reloading"
The Vickers has to deal with this too. what I was referring to is the gravity feeding system with the Gatling gun, with the vickers you must change belts every 250 rounds

"no jam trouble"

I'm so sorry that I cant make things clear.
lets talk hypothetical. Say that any gun action will jam after 1000 rounds. A Vickers witch only has 1 action jams after 1000 rounds. A Gatling gun has 10 actions, Because each action is being used 10 times less it will jam after 10000 rounds (plus a vickers has a ammo belt that can also jam). And if one of the actions on the gatling gun fails you can disengage that barrel and fire with the others

"Up to 900 rounds per minute"

We already dealt with recoil so this still stands

"10 barrels"

Hey ,its better than 7

"The cocking handle on the Vickers can take of a finger."

What you said is true but the cocking handle is about 1/2 an inch away from your finger, and if on a Gatling gun one of the fingers that you are cranking with gets stuck you can no longer fire and you keep the finger

"the Gatling design is not obsolete"

I said destine didn't I, the mini gun uses the design. (the vickers design is not original)

"back in WWI, a case where the British fired over 1 million rounds and wore through over 100 barrels over 12 hours of continuous use and not a single break down"

The Gatling gun brakes down 10 time less than a single action weapon. As I have proved.
One action brakes down so what.

"burst effect, the vickers is capable of utilizing bursts of shots. The gatling gun is not capable of doing this."

Just rotate the handle 10 percent for single shot, 50 percent for five round burst and 150 percent for a 15 round burst

I admit you got me on size
But only on size is the vickers more effective

ef�fec�tive
adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result

Thank you
Plato_ATODT

Con

Plato_ATODT forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
max_p_robertson

Pro

He forfited take away som of his points
Plato_ATODT

Con

Plato_ATODT forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
max_p_robertson

Pro

he gave up twice

I win!!!!!!!
Plato_ATODT

Con

Plato_ATODT forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
I agree.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
max_p_robertsonPlato_ATODTTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious