The Instigator
RainbowDash52
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ObiWan
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

The Geico mascot is based off of a real animal species (I'm Con)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
ObiWan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2016 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,224 times Debate No: 85816
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

RainbowDash52

Con

Resolution: The Geico mascot is based off of a real animal species

Definition:
The Geico mascot refers to this:


BoP: Pro has burden of proof

Rules

1. First round acceptance
- no arguments are to be made in the first round

2. In-debate citations
- citations used must be provided within the text of the debate

3. No semantics
- no using obviously unfair semantics

4. No "K"s by Pro
- Pro can't use the letter K anywhere within the debate

5. No new arguments in the last round
- in the last round, rebuttals are allowed, but new arguments are not

6. Rule violation results in forfeit
- violating a rule is an automatic 7 point loss
ObiWan

Pro

This should be a fun topic to begin debating on this site again with. I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
RainbowDash52

Con

When looking at the picture of the Geico mascot, it may appear to be some kind of lizard like creature. But lizards consist of a diverse group including over 6,000 species[1]. Here are some examples of different species of lizards:


Veiled Chameleon [2]


Water Monitor [2]


Mangrove Monitor [2]

My opponent must show the Geico mascot is based off of a species of animal, not just that that they are based off of a suborder such as the lizard. Since the burden of proof is on pro, and that there is not much I can do to prove a negative without relying on rebuttals, I will now give my opponent a chance to provide evidence for if there is in fact a species that the Geico mascot is based off of.

Sources
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.lizardtypes.com...
ObiWan

Pro

As my opponent has already pointed out, the Geico mascot is anthropomorphic lizard of some description. I will assume from my opponents first round post that this point is not going to be contested.

Taxonomically lizards are classified into the sub-order Lacertilia within the order Squamata. My job as pro will therefore be to demonstrate that a species within this suborder forms a basis for the design of the Geico mascot.
The next taxonomic step leads you to the family comprised of “small to medium species of lizard…found in a wide variety of colours.” [1] In Spanish a member of this family would be referred to as 'el geco'.

A large number of these lizards are nocturnal, however the Geico mascot is usually shown in commercials being active during the day. This, along with his green colouring classify him into the genus Phelsuma [2]. From here the Geico mascot bears a resemblance to many species, however the best match is Phelsuma madagascariensis.

42904-1922-xq7xm-a.jpg


It fits the relatively large size of the Geico mascot compared to some other members of the genus Phelsuma, with the largest members of P. madagascariensis being around a foot long. This species is also characterized as being “bright emerald green in colour” with “large eyes” devoid of light and “patches of red on the lower [dorsal side] and sometimes also on the head”. [3]
All these traits line up perfectly with Geico’s mascot. As seen in cons picture above the green scales of the body and a red patch on the head are clearly visible. It is possible to go further and investigate whether one of the various subspecies that comprise the species P. madagascariensis is a more specific match however the resolution only calls for a distinct species so I will stop here.

[1] http://tinyurl.com...
[2] http://tinyurl.com...
[3] http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 2
RainbowDash52

Con

Although my opponent pointed out similarities between the Phelsuma madagascariensis and the Geico mascot, there are also features that the Geico mascot shares in common with other lizards that the Phelsuma madagascariensis does not have.

Number of fingers

The Geico mascot has 5 fingers per hand.



The Phelsuma madagascariensis has only 4 fingers per hand.

[2]

The Mangrove Monitor lizard has 5 fingers per hand, like the Geico mascot.



Bipedalism

The Geico mascot is capable of running on two feet.



The Jesus Lizard is also capable of running on two feet.

[1]

The Phelsuma madagascariensis is not capable of running on two feet.

Conclusion

The Geico mascot has multiple lizard-like features that do not exist with the Phelsuma madagascariensis. The Geico mascot is not based off of the species my opponent mentioned, but it is actually just a generic lizard, having characteristics of many lizards, and not fitting into the Phelsuma madagascariensis species my opponent mentioned.

Sources

[1] http://www.factzoo.com...
[2] http://www.club100.net... (Ctrl F "Phelsuma madagascariensis kochi", 2nd image)
ObiWan

Pro

First I want to point out that the comparison with the Jesus Lizard, also called by the same name as the reptile that inhabits the Chamber of Secrets, is unfounded. In this comparison my opponent suggests that the Jesus lizard is the inspiration for the mascots bipedalism. However, the Jesus lizard is really only bipedal when it runs across water, something that I can't find evidence of the Geico mascot ever doing.

Instead, the Geico lizard strolls around on his hind legs, with his forelegs functioning more as arms. This is not a characteristic of any distinct lizard species, rather it is anthropomorphism. Along with his ability to verbally communicate and provide advice on insurance, the Geico mascots bipedalism is an effort to humanise him, which enables him to become the voice of a major advertising campaign. The same could also be argued about his pentadactyl limbs, however as I will explain, this is not really necessarily.

As per the resolution I want to clarify that I am arguing that the geico mascot is BASED on P.madagascariensis, not that it is a member of this species. Most movies based on novels do not try to recreate the text entirely but to use its core elements as the basis for the movie. This is what Geico have done. In the two pictures my opponent has shown above the similarities between the mascot and the real lizard are obvious. Using the overall style of the P.madagascariensis as a base they have created their own unique character, much as a unique movie can be created out of the text it is based on. My opponent has not argued that these similarities that I pointed out, namely body colours, patterns, eyes and size exist, they are so obvious this isn't really possible.

In summary the Geico mascot is a being that possesses all the major characteristics of the P. madagascariensis as well as some anthropomorphic qualities so is it reasonable to conclude that the mascot is based on P. madagascariensis.

Image from last round: http://tinyurl.com...

Debate Round No. 3
RainbowDash52

Con

Rebuttal
My opponent is essentially arguing that because P. madagascariensis has many similarities with the Geico mascot, the Geico mascot must have been based off of the P. madagascariensis.

This does not logically follow. My opponent did not discuss the probability that the Geico mascot was an original lizard creation that coincidentally happened to share many characteristics with one of the 6,000 species of lizards. My opponent's current arguments show that the Geico mascot COULD have been based off of the P. madagascariensis, but does not show why this scenario is significantly more probable than the alternative to the point that Pro's explanation can be assumed correct beyond reasonable doubt.
ObiWan

Pro

As I have stated previously the fact that the Geico lizard shares all its major characteristics with P. madagascariensis shows that this species has formed a strong base from the mascots overall design. These similarities have all been conceded my con and are:


- Size


- Body Colour


- Red patches


- Shape and colour of eyes


Con now says that that mascot shares "many characteristics with one of the 6,000 species of lizards" however the attempt in the previous round to describe these characteristics addapted from other lizards was dropped after being rebutted by me and no new possible features have been proposed.


As I said earlier, the madagascariesis and the Geico mascot are no completely identical, but the features of the Geico mascot that are inconsistent are elements of anthropomorphism: bipedalism, speech, pentadactyl limbs. Since these features do not come from another lizard and are only added in order to allow the mascot to be a more effective advertising tool it is then reasonable to state that the mascot has drawn its design from P. madagascariesis and is therefore based of a real species of lizard.


My gratitude to con for what has been a light and entertaining debate!


Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid// Mod action: NOT Removed<

4 points to Pro (S&G, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Before and after: con knows it is a gecko. Pro knows it is a gecko. The whole world knows it is a gecko. The cavemen know it's a gecko. The crux of this debate focused on a gimmick based on Pros prohibition from using the letter K. Con tried a dirty rotten no good slimy disingenuous trick in the rules that created a spelling handicap for pro then failed to abide by her own rule. The S&G rules were not even for both sides. Therefore pro had an increased level of difficulty. How is this NOT specific? You want specific, con's argument should avoid Ks if you want equal S&G consideration. Argument: pro made a very convincing case by referencing the scientific Classification and identifying the anthropomorphism. Con tried to argue that the anthro was a characteristic of other species. It clearly is not. The mascot is made more human like to appeal to an audience. It does not walk to reference the Jesus lizard. Cons argument was not convincing. And the "trick" Fails.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The vote is sufficient, analyzing specific arguments and responses given by each of the debaters and coming to a decision as a result. The S&G point is not as well explained as it should be, particularly because it sounds more like a reason to award conduct than S&G, but the voter is allowed some discretion when it comes to rules like this that are... strange.
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Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Pro (S&G, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: B&A: Well, duh, it's a gecko. Obviously. Con knew that as well but hoped to catch someone unawares in the rules. Spelling & Grammar: Point to con for effectively avoiding the letter 'K'. I'm sure it took no small feat of research and editing to work around this condition. While Con's S&G was perfectly acceptable, the restriction did not apply. Pro had the extra burden and successfully navigated the obstacle. Args: Pro proved that the Basis (key word) for the mascot was the gecko with some liberties taken for anthropomorphism and marketing.

[*Reason for removal*] The voter does have to assess the arguments made in the debate and not merely dismiss Con's arguments without explaining why.
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Posted by ObiWan 1 year ago
ObiWan
good call
Posted by RainbowDash52 1 year ago
RainbowDash52
@ObiWan
You might want to make sure your image is set to public before sharing its link.
Posted by ObiWan 1 year ago
ObiWan
http://www.debate.org...

Don't know what happened to my picture in round 2 but you can see it here.
Posted by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
A brony!
Posted by Torton 1 year ago
Torton
"No "K"s by Pro."

Oh, you are a sly dog, Rainbowdash.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid 1 year ago
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid
RainbowDash52ObiWanTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Before and after: con knows it is a gecko. Pro knows it is a gecko. The whole world knows it is a gecko. The cavemen know it's a gecko. The crux of this debate focused on a gimmick based on Pros prohibition from using the letter K. Con tried a dirty rotten no good slimy disingenuous trick in the rules that created a spelling handicap for pro then failed to abide by her own rule. The S&G rules were not even for both sides. Therefore pro had an increased level of difficulty. How is this NOT specific? You want specific, con's argument should avoid Ks if you want equal S&G consideration. Argument: pro made a very convincing case by referencing the scientific Classification and identifying the anthropomorphism. Con tried to argue that the anthro was a characteristic of other species. It clearly is not. The mascot is made more human like to appeal to an audience. It does not walk to reference the Jesus lizard. Cons argument was not convincing. And the "trick" Fails.