The Instigator
IveGotUrOuts
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Nosaj5q
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The God Debate: Does god exist?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/24/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,069 times Debate No: 23130
Debate Rounds (5)
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IveGotUrOuts

Pro

I will be arguing for the existence of god from the PRO position........

Round 1 acceptance only

Definition of god: the creator and ruler of the universe

My arguments:

1. The origin of the universe.
2. Objective morality
Nosaj5q

Con

I Accept these terms.
Debate Round No. 1
IveGotUrOuts

Pro

Thx to my OPP for accepting this debate and to our audience for reviewing it........

First I need to say I am not claiming that I can prove that God exists with absolute certainty. I am just saying that on balance of evidence theism is more plausible than not.

Now I ask that our audience leave your beliefs at the door so to speak look at both sides of this debate with "open minded" point of view judge/vote based on the best argument. I feel it is important for skeptics on both sides to recognize that not all their beliefs are based upon physical evidence.

A skeptic or atheist is governed by two main principles: (1) all beliefs must be supported by observational evidence (2) beliefs that contradict observational evidence cant be tolerated. But strong atheism says there is no God even though observational evidence indicates that the universe has a cause that cannot be detected observationally. The lack of observational evidence for a natural cause for the universe, the strong atheist believes that the universe has a natural cause and that there is no God, contradicting that all beliefs should be based upon observational evidence.[1]

The evidence for design is seen in the nature of the universe and how it came to be. The big bang theory(BBT) states that the universe came from a singularity of virtually no size which gave rise to the dimensions of space and time, in addition to all matter and energy. Short hyper-inflationary expansion. The cause of this inflation is unknown, but is needed for life in the universe.

There is evidence that our universe was designed by intelligent force. The design of the universe is just one line of evidence that tells us that God is real and created the universe.

The origin of the universe:

Such metaphysical beliefs are often incorporated in popular books about cosmology, although it is seldom stated that those beliefs are without any evidence. As much as atheists would love to get rid of a beginning to the universe, it is apparent that it did begin to exist some time in the past. The skeptical mind argues "What if the universe was always here, eternally self existent, the same way that most people see God as self existent ? This is a fair question. Lets look at what would be required if this were the case, and the evidence for and against this notion.

If the universe never began to exist then that means that the number of events in the past is infinite. But infinity is nothing more than an illusion. While I do not deny that it has truth as a mathematical concept, I do not believe that it can exist in reality. Mathematicians show that the idea of an infinite collection of things leads to self-contradictions. This shows that infinity is just an idea in your mind, not something that exists in reality. Mathematician David Hilbert said "The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite to play is solely that of an idea." This tells us that the number of past events is finite. The universe cannot just go back forever so the universe must have begun to exist.

I have shown that the universe is not infinite meaning it begun to exist.

(1) Whatever begins to exist requires a cause
(2) The universe began to exist
(3) Therefore the universe requires a cause

By the standard laws of logical reasoning this is true.[2]

The cause of the universe:

(1)What caused the universe is not inside of space.
(2)Is also temporal meaning it never began to exist the cause is eternal
(3)The cause is not material there was matter before the big bang

We know space, time, and matter began to exist. What could have caused them to begin to exist ?

(1)abstract objects like numbers
(2)Our minds

This cause created the physical universe, the cause is supernatural(because it brings nature into being and is not inside of nature itself) The cause violates the law of conservation of matter is therefore performing a miracle.

The cause of the universe is supernatural and it performed a miracle. The cause of the universe must be God by definition is the creator and ruler of the universe.

Objective morality:

"Objectivism" is the idea that right and wrong are true regardless what anyone believes. Right and wrong never change. Example of objectivism: Torturing people for fun is wrong is objectively true whether we believe it or not. If everyone was brainwashed into thinking it is morally right, torturing people just for fun would still be wrong.

"Relativism" is the rejection of objectivism. The doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture and society and are not absolute.

Objectivism holds that there is one true morality binding all of us. We have three options (1) Morality could come from a benevolent god (2) it could come from human nature for example, we could have evolved an innate set of moral values or it could come from (3) rational principles that all rational people must recognize like the rules of logic and math.

With this evidence, it seems relativism is wrong, so it would make sense to accept objective morality as actually being the case.

Now we see objective morality exist, and by definition is unchangeable. So we know there is a changeless essence out there that is the "good". We also have a duty to this objective "good". When we go against it we feel guilt. The "good" is alive, and interactive. We have a personal duty to an objective "good" being, so, it seems that he is deserving of the name God.[3]

So we know:

(1)Objective moral values exist
(2)Objective moral values require the existence of a god
(3)Therefore, a God exists

This means by evidence I have shown that theism is more plausible than not.









[1]http://www.godandscience.org...
[2]http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org...
[3]http://carm.org...
Nosaj5q

Con

Nosaj5q forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
IveGotUrOuts

Pro

My OPP has forfeit his round I accept his friendly quit.
Nosaj5q

Con

Nosaj5q forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
IveGotUrOuts

Pro

IveGotUrOuts forfeited this round.
Nosaj5q

Con

Nosaj5q forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
IveGotUrOuts

Pro

IveGotUrOuts forfeited this round.
Nosaj5q

Con

Nosaj5q forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
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