The Instigator
TheGayAtheist
Con (against)
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The Contender
suzyy97
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

The God of the Bible, and His Existence.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/12/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 435 times Debate No: 61612
Debate Rounds (5)
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TheGayAtheist

Con

Hello. In this debate we will talk about the existence of the God of the Bible, so fasten your seatbelts. I'd like to start off with saying that I believe the God of the Bible is non-existent, due to many scientific errors and issues in the Bible. Let's look at some.
1: In Genesis, the moon is referred to as a "light" ("lesser light" actually). The moon is merely a reflector of the sun's light, and produces no visible light, although it does shine in different wavelengths not perceivable to the human eye, such as the infrareds. 2: The Worldwide Flood, it supposedly happened because God was angry at all the innocent bunny rabbits and squirrels, yada-yada-yada. However, why are there no signs or clues pointing to it? Don't you think a massive disaster would give a sign or mark? 3: Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes. 4: God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day. And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 5: The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite.

Just in case you're going to mention these:
If God doesn't exist, what made the world? - Our existence doesn't prove anything, the Big Bang is most likely what created us. Either way, if we exist, and the Big Bang is proven wrong, then why does this question have to appeal to your God?

If we came from Apes, how are there still Apes? - We did not come from Apes, we only share a common ancestor.

The Bible talks about Israel and the Jews getting it back. - And? Humans are highly territorial, and I wouldn't think that it's amazing the Jews fought for some land that was firstly owned by them.

What created the Big Bang? Something can't come from nothing! - We don't know what created the Big Bang, and we may never know, however, our best explanation were natural laws.

Where do you get your morality from? - I get my morality from my brain, I have common sense and empathy. I don't need a book which states gay people should be stoned, rape victims will marry their rapists, or kill anyone for breaking the Sabbath.

Life is so complex and amazing, how could an accident create this? - God seems complex and amazing too, what created him? The Big Bang wasn't an accident, by the way, when non-existence is infinite (except for the cause that will intervene with it), the Big Bang was going to happen, it will reach that point, no matter how high the odds.

It's your turn, suzyy, good luck.
suzyy97

Pro

Very good points!

The evidence and arguments suggesting the existence of a Divine Being, God, far outweigh the contrary belief, there is no God.

~"What created the Big Bang? Something can't come from nothing! - We don't know what created the Big Bang, and we may never know, however, our best explanation were natural laws."

Why can not a single thing come into existence from absolutely nothing, but for some reason the only exception is that the entire universe came into existence from absolutely nothing? Not one single element or object has been brought to life or has started from nothing. So, to assume that the earth was formed from literally "nothing" exploding into what we now see around us, takes more faith than to believe in God. The world, nature, is designed. There must be a Designer. God is the Designer of all things.
Science has proven in multiple ways that the universe had a beginning (the universe is expanding, there is background radiation remaining from a massive explosion, the amount of usable energy is in decline, which means if the universe was eternal, the universe would have run out of energy by now.) Since the universe has a beginning, there has to be a cause for its existence. that cause can be two things: either there is a Divine Being (God) who created the universe, or materials which were formed from nothing.

~"Life is so complex and amazing, how could an accident create this? - God seems complex and amazing too, what created him? The Big Bang wasn't an accident, by the way, when non-existence is infinite (except for the cause that will intervene with it), the Big Bang was going to happen, it will reach that point, no matter how high the odds."

"except for the cause that will intervene with it" well, what is this cause? Again, the Big Bang suggests a long, long time of nothing, and then, as you call it, a "cause" intervenes, and suddenly there is something. This is simply not possible, considering that this has never ever been able to be repeated in science in all of history, ever.

~"Where do you get your morality from? - I get my morality from my brain, I have common sense and empathy. I don't need a book which states gay people should be stoned, rape victims will marry their rapists, or kill anyone for breaking the Sabbath."

This argument is illogical, because if morality comes from your brain, then it is also comes from my brain. Since our brains are obviously different, then our moral truths would be different also. The same applies to common sense and empathy. Because everyone has different brains, therefore varying morals, could you accuse Hitler of doing anything wrong morally? This is an example of relativism, claiming that moral truths are different for each person.
Yes the book includes these events, because the penalty for sin is death. The situations you mentioned were while the world was still under the Law of Moses. However, God is merciful and gives us grace when He sent His one and only Son, Jesus, to die in place of all of our sins so we wouldn't have to die for the sins we commit everyday. The world was then placed under the Law of the New Testament. The Law of Moses, aka The Law of the Old Testament, became obsolete. Reading the Bible in context is really the only way to understand it.

~"2: The Worldwide Flood, it supposedly happened because God was angry at all the innocent bunny rabbits and squirrels, yada-yada-yada. However, why are there no signs or clues pointing to it? Don't you think a massive disaster would give a sign or mark?"

God was not angry, no where in Genesis does the Bible state His anger. And because you have mentioned what you believe was the emotion of God, I will use the Bible to correct this. "The Lord was grieved that He has made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain." - Genesis 6:20. This verse shows us that God has emotions, and was deeply pained when man fell into sin. My first reaction reading the account of the flood was anger towards God. How could God regret us, His own creation? What I learned was God was so hurt that we had turned our hearts from Him. After Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, they were damned because they chose to turn from their Creator. God wants so badly, more than anything else, for us to spend eternity with Him in Heaven. He yearns for our hearts. Because the choice is ours however, we will always choose sin because every single person to ever live has sinned, it is the human nature to sin. God was pleased with Noah, because He was a righteous man and He "walked with God", meaning he did not choose to go against God. This is why Noah was chosen to build the ark, and so on. So this should answer the reasoning behind the Great Flood.
As for evidence, or "leaving a mark," all I can really say is that there is abundant evidence and signs that the world experienced a complete flooding. The Grand Canyon is a great example of the effect of the Great Flood. "The evidence does, however, point to Noah's Flood. Today, we see two beach lines from what used to be two large lakes near the Grand Canyon. Creationists believe that after Noah's Flood, the lakes got too full and spilled over the top. When water overflows a dam, the weakest point is instantly eroded. Thus, the Grand Canyon would have been formed quickly, supporting the creationist interpretation." - http://creationtoday.org.... The earth's plates

~"3: Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes."

When you say "plants are made" I assume you mean plants were created by God. Now that we have established He made them, we can remember the power of God. If God made plants, He also made the thing that can supply the plants with the necessary nutrients for survival. Why does it matter what day He made each "thing"? God made them, so it would be His reasoning for when He created everything. Also, on the first day God created light on the first day, so God might of used this light for the few hours before he created the sun. Also, plants can survive more than a day without sunlight.

~"God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day. And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?"

Days are not marked by the sun, they are marked by the rotation of the earth, and time. The light could have been coming from one source, similar to the un anyway, so there would still be an evening and a morning if this were the case.

~"If we came from Apes, how are there still Apes? - We did not come from Apes, we only share a common ancestor."

If you don't believe we originated from apes, what do we originate from? Who is this common ancestor? Also, there is absolutely no proof for macro-evolution, there is only proof for micro-evolution. Darwin's finches only proved micro-evolution. The finches did not change into another species. Finches are finches. Therefore, how could the most complex mammal on earth originate from a single-celled organism? Where is the proof?

~"The Bible talks about Israel and the Jews getting it back. - And? Humans are highly territorial, and I wouldn't think that it's amazing the Jews fought for some land that was firstly owned by them."

This doesn't prove the existence of God directly, but it only proves the legitimacy of the bible. The bible has many prophecies that also validate it. A clear example would be how the middle east is the most political unstable place in the history of the world. This was predicted by the bible when Rebekah was pregnant with Jacob and Esau. The twins were fighting in the womb and God spoke to Rebekah and told her that she had two nations within her. This is still true today in the middle east, the two nations continue to fight.

:-)
Debate Round No. 1
TheGayAtheist

Con

From which creature did we originate from?
Modern Humans originated from Homo Erectus.
Homo erectus is an extinct species of hominin that lived throughout most of the Pleistocene, with the earliest first fossil evidence dating to around 1.9 million years ago and the most recent to around 143,000 years ago
suzyy97

Pro

suzyy97 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
TheGayAtheist

Con

TheGayAtheist forfeited this round.
suzyy97

Pro

suzyy97 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
TheGayAtheist

Con

TheGayAtheist forfeited this round.
suzyy97

Pro

anything else you wanted to talk aboutt?
Debate Round No. 4
TheGayAtheist

Con

TheGayAtheist forfeited this round.
suzyy97

Pro

suzyy97 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by suzyy97 3 years ago
suzyy97
sorry for the forfeit, ready for next round!
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