The Instigator
Wumbology
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Jacobtheatheist
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The God of the Bible exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/3/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 931 times Debate No: 29822
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Jacobtheatheist

Con

Burden of Proof is on you.
Debate Round No. 1
Wumbology

Pro

It isn't much of a burden. Atheists normally struggle to form coherent arguments anyway.
I would strongly recommend Dr. Kent Hovind. He has a PhD in Christian Education from the prestigious PBU.

Anyways, I doubt it will take more than one argument to confuse an atheist brain. I'll just get right into it.

1. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
2. The Trashmen "The bird is the word".
3. Bird = God.
4. Birds exist.
C: Therefore, God exists.

Checkmate.
Jacobtheatheist

Con

Rebuttals:
'1. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."'
First you need to prove that this is true. You have failed to do this.
'3. Bird = God.'
This is also faulty. Even if you could somehow prove that the Bible is true, you still face the problem that just because they share one property (which is debatable), that does not mean that they are the same thing.

My arguments:
Argument #1: Who made God?
If I were to ask you the question 'Who made God?', a likely response would be 'God is uncaused'. This would mean he is eternal, yet this is impossible. I'd ask you the question 'How many hours has god existed for?'. You cannot answer 'infinity', because infinity isn't a number. What is Infinity minus Infinity? Exactly. Can you count to infinity? Exactly. So Infinity isn't a number, it's just an idea in our mind. Therefore, God cannot be eternal and must have a cause, making the whole idea of a God pointless.

Argument #2: No being can be omnipotent.
God is apparently omnipotent. That would mean he'd posses the ability to make himself stronger. But how can God make himself stronger if he is already omnipotent? Exactly. No being can be omnipotent.

Argument #3: God can't be all-knowing, able to prevent evil and willing to prevent evil.
If he is all of these things, he'd be able to know what's going to happen in the future since he's all-knowing. Everyone can agree there's evil in the world, but if he is all three of these things, then why is there still evil? So, which of these three properties does he posses?

Now, to win this argument, my opponent will have to disprove every single one of these arguments and put his own valid arguments in place.
Debate Round No. 2
Wumbology

Pro

If the Bible is false, then I would be uncomfortable. Therefore, the Bible must be true. Therefore, John is accurate.

Saying something IS x is not the same as saying it has property x. The "word" is not an adjective.
A = X
B = X
A = B

Also, all of your arguments were flawed.

Argument 1: Who made God?
Ok. Who made the laws of physics the way they are? You don't need to account for causes. I can ask you: "What causes gravity to be as strong as it is?" *Reply* "What causes that?" *Reply* etc.
You will eventually not have an answer but that doesn't make any of the previous answers invalid.

Argument 2:
God is logical by nature. God cannot act opposite to his nature. Making an omnipotent being stronger is a paradox, therefore contradictory to God's nature. When you hear "God is omnipotent", that generally means he has all possible power. He does not possess impossible power. He is not absurd.

Argument 3:
God is not willing to rid the world of evil nor is it part of his definition. If it is even possible that God has a reason for permitting evil, then it follows that evil and God are logically consistent. I doubt you would claim it is impossible.

My argument stands.
Jacobtheatheist

Con

Rebuttals:
You have still failed to provide valid evidence that the Bible is true. Until you do this, your only argument is invalid.

Argument #1: Who made God?
The answer is that I don't know, but we are not here to discuss how the origins of the universe. We are here to discuss whether the God of the Bible exists or not. You seem to have no objection to the argument I put forward which is that nothing can be eternal. Therefore, God cannot be eternal and must have a cause.

Argument #2: No being can be omnipotent
My point is that if a being were omnipotent, then surely it would have the ability to make itself stronger. You're correct, that is a paradox. My whole point stands. A being can not be omnipotent.

Argument #3: God can't be all-knowing, able to prevent evil and willing to prevent evil.
So, God is not willing to prevent evil? So God surely can't be a moral-being, can he? He's able to prevent it evil, but he doesn't but he punishes you for it with eternal torture. How is that a loving or moral God?

The thing is that even if you're right and all three arguments are faulty, you still have to provide evidence as you're the one making the positive claim and therefore you have the burden of proof. Also, to claim that the God from the Bible exists is an extraordinary claim, is it not? Therefore, you'd have to back your statement up with an extraordinary amount of evidence, not just one argument. Those are the two possible outcomes of this debate. Provide an extraordinary amount of evidence, or lose.

Arguments:

Argument #4: God can't be all-knowing AND all-powerful.
This is a claim about the God of the Bible, that he is all-knowing and all-powerful. If he is both these things, is it possible for him to alter the future to one that he doesn't know about? No, exactly. It's a paradox. It is impossible.

Argument #5: The God of the Bible is not a Morally Good God.
This is because he gives an infinite amount of torture to someone who has commited a finite amount of sin and an infinite amount of paradise to someone who has committed a finite amount of good deeds.
Debate Round No. 3
Wumbology

Pro

.....
You completely ignore my refutations to restate your arguments.

Who made God?
Irrelevant. We are discussing existence. If I don't provide you with a cause or argue eternity with you, it doesn't matter.
I thought I made that clear enough.

No being can be omnipotent.
I already clarified this too. When theists, or at least I, say "God is omnipotent" we mean he possesses all possible power. I do not claim God has impossible power. God is logical by nature and he cannot act contrary to his nature. The reason God cannot be more powerful is the same reason he cannot make square circles. It would be against his nature.

God and Morality
Again, God does not prevent evil. This does not mean he is necessarily immoral, nor amoral. If you concede that it is possible for God to have a reason for allowing evil then it follows that God and evil can coexist. This does not require God to be immoral. We are arguing existence anyways. The morality of God is off topic....again.

I already provided extraordinary evidence. It was called the Trashmen Argument for the Existence of God.
Jacobtheatheist

Con

Jacobtheatheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Wumbology

Pro

I rest my case.
Jacobtheatheist

Con

Jacobtheatheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Wumbology 3 years ago
Wumbology
I shall continue tomorrow.
Posted by Wumbology 3 years ago
Wumbology
Don't forget to give proof and evidence that atheism is accurate and correct.
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