The Instigator
ballpit
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
K-Lew
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Government of Nazi run Germany under Hitler was a well designed and successful government.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/16/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 581 times Debate No: 88306
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

ballpit

Pro

R1. Acceptance
R2. Arguments
R3. Rebuttals
R4. Conclusions

Resolution: The Government under Hitler was a well designed and successful system of government.
K-Lew

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for giving me the opportunity to challenge him in this debate. I will be arguing that the government under Nazi Germany was not a well-designed government and it was not a successful system of government. My opponent will argue first. I wish him good luck and a fun debate.
Debate Round No. 1
ballpit

Pro

I will be using a simple setup for my argument. This will involve the success of the Economy, the pride of the German people during this period, and the rebirth of Germany as a world power.

ECONOMY:
The German economy during the 1920's and 30's was in shambles after the events of WWI. Then after a variety of coups etc. Adolf Hitler was put into power. During the time he was in power Germany's economy flourished and unemployment virtually vanished.[1] Government earnings rose by almost 5 billion Reichsmarks(German currency during Nazi rule) to 15 billion from 10 billion within 11 years(1928-1939). The German economy had been changed from a peacetime economy to a wartime economy which when done by the US when they entered WWII broke them out of a depression had a similar if not greater effect on the shattered German economy.

NATIONAL PRIDE:
National pride had risen in the time leading up to WWII in Germany as they had now had a thing to blame for the economic failures after WWI the Jews. This was a thought help by a lot of civilizations all around the world during this time and the Government used it as a marvelous way to inspire the German citizen to believe in their country again.

GERMANY AS A WORLD POWER:
Germany after WWI was forced to remove it's military, land, and a large amount of money(to pay for damages) thanks to the treaty of Versailles. When the Nazi party took over Germany became a Super Power again thanks to their Government using their abundant natural resources to their advantage as well as a rebuilding of the military after Hitler had revoked the Treaty of Versailles.[2] The creation of programs geared toward preparation for war such as the Autobahn project helped to have a logistical network ready for war when the Fuhrer's ambitions had come to fruition. Hitler changed the German outlook and in preparation for war had made Germany a world power yet again.

Sources:
[1]http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...
[2]https://www.quora.com...
K-Lew

Con

I agree with my opponent when he mentioned that Hitler and the Nazi Party helped bring national pride back to the Germans. Hitler was a nationalist, that was what he was suppose to do. My opponent also discussed about the economic factor with the Nazi government. I will do the same.

What Hitler did in regards to the unemployed: Hitler wanted an economic plan that can solve unemployment and lift Germany back on its feet. A number of policies were introduced which caused the unemployment figures to drop. For starters, women were no longer included in the statistics, basically any women who remained out of work under the Nazi's reign did not exist as far as the statistics were concerned. Jews lost their citizenship in 1935 and as a result were not included in the unemployment figures either, even though many lost their employment at the start of Hitler's time in power. The unemployed were given two options: do whatever work is given to you by the government or you will be considered as "work-shy" and be put in a concentration camp. Young men were taken off the unemployment figure by joining the military and working in factories to make weapons for the military. The Nazis introduced public work schemes for men who worked in the National Labour Service, which included digging ditches on farms, building new parts to the Autobahn, planting new forests, etc. These guys lived in camps and earned money (from the taxpayer's money). The German Labour Front was put forth to protect those people. The GLF took the role of trade unions, which were banned. Workers could not be fired on the spot, but could quit without the government's permission. The KDF took are of worker leisure time. They also involved itself in introducing a scheme whereby the workers could get a car, The Volkswagen (People's Car).

The bad side of the Nazi's economic thinking: At first, it seems like Hitler has done good to the economy. However, the hidden side is not shown. Women and Jews were excluded from the workforce, like outcasts, creating inequality. Also, no one received a car. The millions of money, marks, invested in the scheme were actually re-directed into the rapidly expanding weapons factories. If you mentioned about not getting your car, you would get into trouble with the secret police. Government income had been 10 billion Reichsmarks in 1928. In 1939, it stood at 15 billion. Government spending went from 12 billion marks in 1928 to over 30 billion in 1939. The Nazi government always spent more than it earned and by 1939, government debt stood at over 40 billion marks. Food consumption also decreased. The only increase was in rye bread, cheese and potatoes. Wages were adjusted to allow for inflation. What Hitler did was he simply altered the economy to extreme measures. Instead of allowing the free-market to readjust itself, Hitler artificially fixed the economy. Any smart economist should know that allowing government to fix the economy actually makes the economy worse than before. Hitler made it worse. In terms of the creation of the Autobahn, for example, it was made by government, increasing government spending. A private company could of made the roads, creating much less trouble for the Nazi German economy. The government also artificially fixed the unemployment, by getting rid of a group of people by force to lower it. The people employed into the new jobs were created by the public sector, not the private sector. If Hitler had allowed "hated" groups to work and the rest of the population were hired in the private sector, the economy would have been booming, not artificially. The private sector drives in the wealth and innovation of an economy, not the public sector, being the government. Wages were also artificially balanced by the Nazi government, instead of allowing wages to come down naturally to correct itself. This was how much success there was in Nazi Germany, not much. Next round, I will discuss the validity of the Nazis having a "well-designed government" and Hitler's ideology, Nazism.
Debate Round No. 2
ballpit

Pro

As this is the rebuttal round I will be taking my opponents arguments and adding my own thoughts to them and attempting to prove them wrong.

To begin with "The Nazis introduced public work schemes for men who worked in the National Labour Service, which included digging ditches on farms, building new parts to the Autobahn, planting new forests, etc." Would you not consider this as a good thing as it had more Germans taking part in the rebuilding of the infrastructure and the earning of money.

Secondly "The KDF took care of worker leisure time. They also involved itself in introducing a scheme whereby the workers could get a car, The Volkswagen (People's Car)." This also shows that the government truly was making the economy stronger by stepping in and giving people jobs and resources that would help them possibly grow the economy further.

Lastly " If Hitler had allowed "hated" groups to work and the rest of the population were hired in the private sector, the economy would have been booming, not artificially." This statement arguably could be seen as true; however, there is no saying whether or not the "private sector would have fixed itself out in the way I assume my opponent is claiming that it would as in Germany at the time very few Germans had the motivation because of various looming feelings seemingly in the air of Germany at the time

So as a whole the government of Nazi Germany was a strong and powerful due to the switch to a wartime economy. There is also the fact that he re positioned Germany on the billboard of world powers.
K-Lew

Con

OPPONENTS REBUTTALS WITH FACTS: The National Labor Service was created by the public sector. Sure, it provided the unemployed something to do with pay and rebuilding Germany. This is what is seen. What is not seen is the amount of jobs in the private sector, which was very few. The government of Nazi Germany was only focused on the public sector, not the private sector. Public sector jobs increase debt and you can not run an economy only on the public sector. You need the private sector, which drives in wealth and innovation and is more important than the public sector. The private sector makes the economy grow. Private companies could of been used to hire the unemployed and could of done the exact same things the public sector jobs could do, but Hitler didn't let that happen.

In regards to the KDF and the Volkswagen, no one received a car. All the money put into it actually went to the factories to increase weaponry, as a huge scam. My opponent questioned about the free market and the ability to fix the economy. The free market always fixes the economy if it was altered, which it clearly was by Hitler and the Nazi government. If Nazi Germany relied on the free market and did not alter the economy, their economy would of increased extremely, not relying on the government, but on private companies, reducing the amount of the unemployed.

My opponent only talked about the success of the Nazi government, not the design of the government, which was the other half of this debate. I will discuss about the idea that Nazi Germany had a horribly-designed government.

DESIGN OF GOVERNMENT: The validity of Nazi Germany having a well-designed government under Hitler is false. Hitler never believed in private and equal rights for everyone. He believed in eugenics and believed in a "perfect race", or the so-called Aryan Race, pure-blood Germans. He believed in undesirables, people he considered the lowest of the low, which included Slavs, Jews, the physically and mentally handicapped, and homosexuals. His book, "Mein Kampf", or "My Struggle" was only a blueprint for what he wanted in Nazi Germany. He never wanted a republic, which is a political system that is led by elected leaders that do not hold their power status on any principle beyond the control of the people living in that state or country. The leaders answer to the general population that has the power to vote the representatives in or out of elected positions. Hitler didn't want this at all. Instead, he wanted a totalitarian government, which is a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed, with a fascist government, which is a system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. Hitler ran a totalitarian-fascist dictatorship under Nazi Germany. This got rid of freedom of expression in all forms. Private and equal rights were gone. The government under the Nazis took over everybody's lives. As much as there were people in Germany surprisingly happy with this, many people in Germany were not happy at all. They hated the Nazis and didn't want to be tied to them at all. Had Nazi Germany ran under a republic, events like the Holocaust would have never occurred. If Germany won WW2, the consequences would be dark. Nazi Germany was extremely oppressive and is an example of how a government should be run.

Economics: http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...

Design of government: http://www.targetofopportunity.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
Debate Round No. 3
ballpit

Pro

Before I write my conclusion I would like to touch on something my opponents said about the design of the German government. He stated that Hitler did not want a republic which is a way of him suggesting that a republic is better than the government put in place instead this statement is opinionated and has no weight in this scenario and is as such unnecessary to the debate. He also goes on to state that a totalitarian government was the cause of the Holocaust which is not a fact and is also a statement with no weight due to it being opinionated hence unrelated and unnecessary to the debate.

Now onto my conclusion. The Nazi run government of Germany in the 1930's was a successful and well designed government because Hitler almost destroyed unemployment, brought German pride to an all time high, and re-established Germany as a world power.

I would once again like to thank my opponent for this debate as it was a fun topic to research and debate about.
K-Lew

Con

In terms of the "republic" line, I was using a republic as an example. It wasn't having a totalitarian government that caused the Holocaust, it was caused by Hitler having a fascist government mixed with eugenics. This is not subjective, this is objective.

CONCLUSION: The government under Nazi Germany was not successful, or well designed. The government ruined people's lives by taking over their lives. No one lived freely under the government. Personal and private rights were taken away. The economy suffered under Hitler's regime. Using the public sector caused an economic downturn because these jobs caused debt to the nation later on. I enjoyed this debate and plan to debate my friend and fellow debater.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by ballpit 1 year ago
ballpit
Sorry for not responding for so long, But I did not claim the true cause of the holocaust because their is no one true reason and no reason that has been proven beyond a doubt as the start of the holocaust. The reason some may have supported it is their in the fact that a few years prior to Hitler's rise their was a mini revolution involving the idea of the social democratic part, a party run predominantly by Jewish citizens at the time.
Posted by K-Lew 1 year ago
K-Lew
I used standardized facts for the economic side of this debate. Not my personal beliefs, but actual facts. As for my conclusion, I was rushing and not thinking. If anything, you should of said what was the true cause of the Holocaust in your conclusion, instead of just telling me that I am wrong. Fascism with eugenics certainly did not help the situation. A totalitarian government is not a good form of government and I stated my reasons with facts. When I discussed about a republic, that was subjective, no doubt about it.
Posted by ballpit 1 year ago
ballpit
it was caused by Hitler having a fascist government mixed with eugenics. This is not subjective, this is objective. this statement is anything but objective as there is still an argument going on about it today as what the true cause of the holocaust was. You are a good debater however you debate heavily using your beliefs instead of standardized facts especially when it comes to the "best form of government" and the causes of the holocaust.
Posted by ballpit 1 year ago
ballpit
That was the disappointing part about me auto posting when my power turned off midway through writing i had a whole thesis written up about the design of the government but gave up on it after the whole power thing.
Posted by K-Lew 1 year ago
K-Lew
For my rebuttal towards the very end, I meant to say not be run
Posted by ballpit 1 year ago
ballpit
I'm extremely sorry to my opponent if i don't get to this as i am very busy this weekend. i will however be trying to get this done sometime tomorrow.
Posted by K-Lew 1 year ago
K-Lew
My source includes http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk.... I apologize if my opponent didn't see it.
Posted by ballpit 1 year ago
ballpit
I would like to apologize ahead of time for my argument cutting short like that as my power went out while I was writing it and my debating style has me jumping around adding things into the separate categories as I go
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