The Instigator
TK57
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
warren42
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

The Green Bay Packers are the Greatest Franchise in NFL History

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
warren42
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 614 times Debate No: 68155
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (2)

 

TK57

Pro

I am here to argue why the Packers are the greatest Franchise in NFL History. First round is acceptance.
warren42

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
TK57

Pro

The Green Bay Packers are the Greatest Franchise in NFL history due to some very simple reasons. They have the most championships in NFL history (13). The 2nd most NFL hall of famers (22). They have never had a very long drought of being a very bad teams. They have some of the greatest players in NFL history such as Don Hutson, Reggie White, and Brett Farve. They are possibly the most important team in NFL history due to the fact that they and the Bears helped transformed the NFL and the Packers helped make the NFL the most popular sport in America in the 1960s. The Packers have 2 of the greatest coaches of all time in Curly Lambeau and Vince Lombardi. The Super Bowl trophy is named after one of their coaches. They have one of the highest winning % in NFL history. They have one of the best rivalries in the NFL (Bears). And they have done all of this while being owned by the fans in the smallest city by a pro sports team.
warren42

Con

My counter-plan, if you will, is to propose that the Chicago Bears are the greatest team in NFL history. The Bears have the most regular season wins of any NFL team (730), the most combined regular season/ postseason wins (747), the highest all-time regular season winning percentage (.575), and the highest all-time regular/postseason combined winning percentage (.573). [1] The Bears have 30 inductees into the Hall of Fame, whereas the Packers have produced 27 (Both of these numbers include coaches, which explains the difference between our numbers). [2] These Hall of Famers include, but are not limited to names including Mike Ditka, Dick Butkus, and Walter Payton, who is arguably the greatest RB in NFL history. At the time of Payton's retirement he held eight NFL records, and was tied for two more. [3] He won the NFL rushing title five consecutive years, and was named NFL MVP twice. He had 13 seasons in which he rushed for 1,000 or more yards. [4] Mike Ditka was also one of the greatest TEs of all time, and an iconic coach during the Bear's incredible 1985 Super Bowl winning season. Speaking of winning titles, the Bears have won seven, six in the pre-Super Bowl era, and the one Super Bowl in 1985. [5] Although the Packers outdo the Bears in this one category, both teams have a strong showing here. On top of all this, the Bears were essentially the founders of professional football. My opponent downplays the Bears' role in this, and makes the Packers sound more important than they were. Harold "Red" Grange was a college phenom, but in the 1910s and early 1920s, college players usually didn't go pro. Red turned that around, joining the Bears only ten days after his last college and instantly attracting about 36,000 fans to his debut game. Ten days later, this number nearly doubled, when 70,000 fans came to his second pro game against the New York Giants. Sensing that they could make something out of this, Bears management and Grange's manager scheduled a "barnstorming tour" where they traveled around the country, playing a mix of local professional, semi-pro, and college teams (which remember were often even better than pro teams). They dominated the competition and won thousands of fans for pro football in the process. [6]

[1] http://www.profootballhof.com...
[2] http://www.profootballhof.com...
[3] http://www.profootballhof.com...
[4] http://www.profootballhof.com...
[5] http://www.profootballhof.com...
[6] http://www.profootballhof.com...

Back to you, Pro!
Debate Round No. 2
TK57

Pro

The Packers have the 2nd most wins of all time (710) a combined regular and postseason winning % of .567 both which are very close to the Chicago Bears. Like i have stated before, the Packers also have some of the greatest players of all time including Don Hutson who is arguably the greatest WR and player of all time, Reggie White who is arguably the greatest defensive player of all time, and Forrest Gregg who is arguably the greatest Offensive Lineman of all time, and those are just a few of their all time greats. I would like to point out that the Bears in fact have not won 7 championships but that they have won 9 championships (8 pre super bowl and 1 super bowl). Where as the Packers have won an astonishing 13 championships!! The Packers are also the only NFL team to have ever won 3 straight championships which they have done TWICE!!! While yes the Bears are most likely the most important team in NFL history the Packers would definitely be 2nd and an argument can be made for them as first (but that's for another day). The Packers have also have more playoff appearances than the Bears (30 to 26). The Packers have also always been in Green Bay and have always been known as the Packers where as the Bears have not always been in Chicago (Decatur) and have not always been known as the Bears (Staleys). But when it comes all down to it the big number is 4. The Packers have 4 more championships than the Chicago Bears and that's a very large number especially when considering that the last Bears championships have come in a span of 71 years!!!!!
warren42

Con

I will start with rebuttals to my opponent's case. My opponent's only real argument here is that the Packers have the most championships in NFL history. His other arguments are all "the Packers have the second most of ________" or "The Packers are one of the best in terms of _____." Meanwhile, I've proven that the Bears are the best in each of these. My opponent goes on about how the Packers helped transformed the NFL, yet again, as I proved, the Bears were the single most influential franchise in gaining support for professional football using their "barnstorming tour." They also state that the Bears-Packers rivalry is the best in football, but this obviously would hold true for Chicago as well. In fact, Bears have an advantage in the rivalry, as the overall win loss record is 92-88-6 [1] (The article was posted in 2012, since then the Packers have won three match-ups and the Bears have won one, which totals the record mentioned above.)

Now, to defend my case. Essentially, all his attacks were him restating his case. That means that his only argument is that the Packers have the most championships in history. If you look at my source [5] provided in my case, which will be referenced yet again, as [2], you will see that the Bears won 7 championships. (An eighth could be argued, but since both an NFL and AFL champion were crowned that year, I chose not to include it. Either way, my opponent's number of nine is inaccurate. Pro doesn't even know my argument well enough to rebut it.

What we really need to focus on is not the championships, in which the Packers have the edge, or the Hall of Famers, where the Bears are better. The thing we need to vote on is which team, throughout history, which team is more likely to go out and win a football game on any given Sunday. That would be the Chicago Bears. Additionally, the Bears have won more when they went head-to-head against the Packers.

[1] http://bleacherreport.com...
[2] http://www.profootballhof.com...

Thank you!
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by TK57 2 years ago
TK57
Okay, but you said I was wrong. As a franchise, the Bears have 9 championships not 7.
Posted by warren42 2 years ago
warren42
I know. That's why I said the Bears "era"
Posted by TK57 2 years ago
TK57
The chicago (decatur) staleys are the chicago bears
Posted by warren42 2 years ago
warren42
I did not include the championship won as the 'Chicago Staleys' because it was not the Bears era.
Posted by warren42 2 years ago
warren42
The debate ended with Round 3. I provided my sources, and they all supported my claims.
Posted by TK57 2 years ago
TK57
Con, again you are wrong. The Bears have 9 championships not 7 or 8. They won in the following years- 1921, 1932, 1933, 1940, 1941, 1943, 1946, 1963, and 1985. Not trying to further the debate but just stating that you should check your sources before using them. Also the Bears are now only have the 2nd highest winning % of all time as the Cowboys are .001 above them.
Posted by TK57 2 years ago
TK57
Zarroette I am not a Packers fan.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Paleophyte 2 years ago
Paleophyte
TK57warren42Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Clear win for Con. As he pointed out "second best" does not support the resolution of "greatest". Pro failed to cite sources. Good conduct on both sides.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
TK57warren42Tied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con noted how when the packers go against the bears they are more likely to lose, and that over a longer timescale the bears have superior stats when compared to the packers. Thus, over a long period of time, the bears are more worthy of being considered the 'greatest' team than the packers. Essentially, Con proved how the bears are better in real games over time, meaning they are 'better'. Pro has the BOP and did nothing to support it. Con also sources his arguments. Con wins. // I agree with Pro since the Packers are owned by the community and not a rich goon. So I support them for moral reasons :P