The Instigator
wateva232
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
SeekTruth
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Hadith prove Muhammad was not divinely inspired.

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Post Voting Period
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after 2 votes the winner is...
wateva232
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/22/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,121 times Debate No: 41047
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (23)
Votes (2)

 

wateva232

Pro

This debate will argue about the Hadith and the scientific errors they contain.


My argument will be that, due to the scientific errors in the Hadith (The words of Muhammad), he cannot have been divinely inspired. Thus, I will present three Hadith and my opponent all that he has to do is to refute them efficiently.


Bear in mind that I will only use Authentic Hadith from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. Also that Muhammad according to the Qur'an never spoke on his own inclination, but from a revelation revealed. (Surat An-Najm 53:2-5).


Few definitions:


Hadith : A report of the sayings or actions of Muhammad or his companions, together with the tradition of its chain of transmission. [1]


Bukhari : Sahih; al-Bukhārī (Arabic: صحيح البخاري‎), is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major hadith collections) of Sunni Islam. These prophetic traditions, or hadith, were collected by the Persian Muslim scholar Muhammad al-Bukhari, after being transmitted orally for generations. Sunni Muslims view this as one of the three most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim and Muwatta Imam Malik. In some circles, it is considered the most authentic book after the Qur'an. The Arabic word sahih translates as authentic or correct. [2]

Muslim: Sahih Muslim (Arabic: صحيح مسلم,); Muslim, full title Al-Musnadu Al-Sahihu bi Naklil Adli) is one of the Kutub al-Sittah (six major Ahadith) of the hadith in Sunni Islam. It is the second most authentic hadith collection after Sahih al-Bukhari, and is highly acclaimed by Sunni Muslims. It was collected by Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj, also known as Imam Muslim. Sahih translates as authentic or correct. [3].


Rules of this debate:

R1 - No Plagiarism. Copy and Pasting is not allowed.
R2 - Con will need to reply to each of the three Hadith I present and refute them efficiently
R3 - Only reliable sources to be used.
R4 - No diversion from the cases presented. Only the hadith Pro presents will be discussed.
R5 - First round is acceptance only, Con only has to say "I accept"




Good luck, wish for a fair debate.


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[1] http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
[2] http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...
[3] http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...
SeekTruth

Con

In the Name of (Allah) God the Most Gracious and Most Merciful
Peace with you my brother, inshAllah (God willingly) will shall come to common grounds and have a better understanding of the Prophetic traditions , noble teachings and lessons from the last and final Messenger of God the mercy to mankind Muhammad Peace and Blessings Upon him.(Pbuh)
Debate Round No. 1
wateva232

Pro

Hello SeekTruth,


I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate and wish him the best of luck. Now I will start presenting my three arguments.


Hadith #1:


Sahih Muslim, Book 26, Hadith Number 5507 : " Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: There is no infection, no safar, no hama. A desert Arab said: Allah's Messenger, how is it that when the camel is in the sand it is like a deer-then a camel afflicted with scab mixes with it and it is affected by sub? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Who infected the first one?" [1]


This is the first Hadith in contention. This Hadith shows that Muhammad did not believe in infectious diseases. If Muhammad was indeed divinely inspired he should have known about Germ Theory. I think no one at the present time does not know that diseases are spread through infections.

Muhammad exclamations are about "Who infected the first one?". Certainly a man inspired by God would've known that pathogen transmission can occur in a number of ways such as physical contact, contaminated food, body fluids, objects, airborne inhalation, or through vector organisms. [2]


Hadith #2:

N.B:- This Hadith is a bit long, so I underlined the part in contention as the rest is not really related to my argument.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 04, Book 55, Hadith Number 546 : "Narrated By Anas : When 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the arrival of the Prophet at Medina, he came to him and said, "I am going to ask you about three things which nobody knows except a prophet: What is the first portent of the Hour? What will be the first meal taken by the people of Paradise? Why does a child resemble its father, and why does it resemble its maternal uncle"

Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel has just now told me of their answers." 'Abdullah said, "He (i.e. Gabriel), from amongst all the angels, is the enemy of the Jews." Allah's Apostle said, "The first portent of the Hour will be a fire that will bring together the people from the east to the west; the first meal of the people of Paradise will be Extra-lobe (caudate lobe) of fish-liver. As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her." On that 'Abdullah bin Salam said, "I testify that you are the Apostle of Allah." 'Abdullah bin Salam further said, "O Allah's Apostle! The Jews are liars, and if they should come to know about my conversion to Islam before you ask them (about me), they would tell a lie about me."

The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and 'Abdullah went inside the house. Allah's Apostle asked (the Jews), "What kind of man is 'Abdullah bin Salam amongst you?" They replied, "He is the most learned person amongst us, and the best amongst us, and the son of the best amongst us." Allah's Apostle said, "What do you think if he embraces Islam (will you do as he does)?" The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him."
[3]



This is the second Hadith in contention. Muhammad answered the question of why a child resembles one of the parents more than the other and the answer was absurd. Muhammad claimed that Gabriel (The angel that revealed the Qur'an upon him) answer was, if a women discharges first then the resemblance will be to the maternal uncle or if the man discharges first the resemblance will be for the father.


Anyone who studied biology would know that the vaginal discharge or fluid has no genetic material at all. The genetic material is contained within the egg. Either way, who discharges first has no impact on who the child resembles. The resemblance is based solely on dominant/recessive traits that are contained within the DNA of the sperm and egg. Mendelian inheritance explain this phenomenon quite efficiently [4]. For extra information here is a website that explains child resemblance http://www.dnaftb.org...




Hadith #3:


Sahih Bukhari Volume 004, Book 054, Hadith Number 430 : " Narrated By 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud : Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. The new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise." [5]



This is the last Hadith in contention. This describes the embryo stages as stated in the Qur'an (23:12-14). However, I am not debating the Qur'an at this time as I stated before, this is just for clarification. The hadith claims that the sperm is put together in womb for 40 days, then clot thick of blood for a similar number and same goes for flesh and bones.

Embryological stages of the fetus however are completely different than what is described in the Hadith. The sperm does not stay in the womb for 40 days to be transferred into Alaqa or a thick clot of blood. Nor does flesh starts to appear in 120 days. Embryonic development halts at almost week 8 or around 60 days in which fetal development starts to occur. In other words the baby is complete after 60 days, despite being tiny, he has all the organs and limbs. [6]




Looking forward for my opponent refutations.



References:


[1] http://hadithcollection.com...

[2] Ryan KJ; Ray CG (editors) (2004). Sherris Medical Microbiology (4th ed.). McGraw Hill. ISBN 0-8385-8529-9.

[3] http://hadithcollection.com...

[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...

[5] http://hadithcollection.com...

[6] http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au...
SeekTruth

Con

SeekTruth forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
wateva232

Pro

My opponent has forfeited the last round. I cannot stop my opponent from forfeiting but it goes again the rules of DDO and it should be left to the voters to decide the penalty.


My opponent said in the comments that he has a refutation for the allegations but that leaves me with one round short for the debate. Thus it will be an unfair fight anyway, but I will have to see my oponent refutation.

Good luck.
SeekTruth

Con

In the Name of Allah (God) The Most Compassionate The Most Merciful ,In not the slightest of way is this a fight or altercation as you stated my brother Peace and Guidance to you and all of the viewers :

1. You are right about the and Germ Theory . In the hadith you're referring to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said "Who infected the first one?" Here he pbuh is showing there are no contagious disease conveyed to others WITHOUT permission of Allah (God). Nothing happens without the will of Allah (God)

2.The implication behind the resemblance to mother or father is that if spermatozoa are
lodged long before ovulation then the activation of the
male genes will be at a more advanced stage than those
in the ovum, and therefore they will play a greater role
in showing the characteristics gained from the father
especially if these genes follow co dominance (with variable penetrance) or have complex inheritance characteristics.

3. a HUMAN BEING is PUT TOGETHER in the womb of the mother IN forty days, he's not saying that the SPERM STAYS in there for 40 days. 40 days after the last month in the first trimester around 120 days (112 to be exact )In the second trimester 16 weeks the skin is thin, transparent and still developing . Take in consideration that this a broad description, with precision about the human creation and development at a time where there was NO SCIENTFIC KNOWLEDGE and any advanced medical equipment to acquire these facts.
Debate Round No. 3
wateva232

Pro

Wa' Alykum As-salam Warhamat Allah we barakato.


When I said a "fight" it was meant as a figure of speech, a metaphor. Since you left me with only this round to refute your arguments, thus making it an "unfair fight". No harsh feelings, but definitely a disadvantage.


Well no offense, but you are replies are definitely lacking. I expected you after forfeiting a round that this rebuttal would certainly be much more than this, but turns out I am wrong. Also you should have given me a reference for the second Hadith rebuttal so I can check the information you have given me.


Anyway, moving on.



1. Con states: "You are right about the and Germ Theory . In the hadith you're referring to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh said "Who infected the first one?" Here he pbuh is showing there are no contagious disease conveyed to others WITHOUT permission of Allah (God). Nothing happens without the will of Allah (God)"


Rebuttal:


Whether it happens with the will of Allah or not has no impact to what Muhammad said. First, Muhammad clearly says in the beginning of the Hadith that there is no infection, no hama etc... The guy genuinely exclaims from that fact, then he said that a healthy camel when it gets into contact with an infected camel it gets infected as well. A simple observation that everyone at the time can make, then Muhammad replies "Who infected the first one?".

Anyone reading this Hadith will simply understand that Muhammad did not believe in infection and he clearly stated it in the first place. Second, him saying "who infected the first one?" clearly shows ignorance about the nature of infection. My point has nothing to do whether the infection happens under the will of God or not. My point is a man spoken to by God would have never said a sentence like this.

Muhammad words purposefully mean that one should not separate between healthy camels and infected camels even if we take your argument "that it only happens under God's will" into account. Anyone with basic biology knowledge would tell you that one should separate healthy organisms from diseased ones. Especially a man talked to from God who created biology and infections would not miss out on something like that.

The "Who infected the first one?" is not a question that should be asked by a man who God speaks to him through an angel. A disastrous mistake to be honest and your reply was insufficient and did not debunk my argument at all. Also, Muhammad did not say that it happens without the will of God, this is the commentary adding these words, but Muhammad never uttered those words in any way.



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2. Con states: A. "The implication behind the resemblance to mother or father is that if spermatozoa are
lodged long before ovulation then the activation of the
male genes will be at a more advanced stage than those
in the ovum."


Rebuttal:


This is provided without any reference to confirm this fact as true or not. I can simply ditch that finding, but I went though the trouble of searching online for it and found out that it is 100% plagiarised from an Islamic forum (sunniforum.com). Here is the entire link if you wish http://www.sunniforum.com...

This is in direct violation of the rules that you agreed to in the first place (R1 and R3). Nevertheless, the references provided in this website which you copy pasted from has two references. One an Islamic biased unscientific book, the second one is a dead link violating R3 since there is no confirmatory evidence to what you are saying.

Nevertheless, I cannot simply outlook the flaws presented in this argument. Actually, your argument doesn't make any sense at all. I really tried my best to understand this statement, but whoever wrote this, has no understanding of biology or how fertilization occurs and he seems to have got it all mixed up. First the "male genes" that are described in your statement are the genes on the Y chromosome. This simply means that the characteristics of a male will appear earlier, but this does not affect the resemblance in any certain way.



B. "therefore they will play a greater role
in showing the characteristics gained from the father
especially if these genes follow co dominance (with variable penetrance) or have complex inheritance characteristics."


Rebuttal:

I have really searched for this and found nothing except the same source that it was copy pasted from. There is no scientific basis for this statement at all. Other than that, this makes no sense in relation to the previous sentence. I have really tried my best to understand how this statement relates to the previous one (Point A). But found out it's simply nonsense that is not backed up by any evidence by someone who lacks knowledge in biology.


Second, this has nothing to do with the Hadith in any possible way. The Hadith was talking about the resemblance due to who "Ejaculate" first. The female ejaculation contributes nothing to the genetic material of the fetus. It simply facilitates the sexual intercourse. Simply put, who ejaculates first has ZERO effect on the resemblance to either maternal uncles or the father.

Let me go one step further since I suspect that you are going to claim that this means follicular fluid. Follicular fluid does not get discharged from the female and again it does not contribute any genetic material to the child. Follicular fluid is a liquid that fills the follicular antrum and in the ovarian follice, it surrounds the ovum.

Simply put, you have not given me any sort of a rebuttal for this argument and you have taken one round from me to be able to refute any further claims you make.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------



3. Con states:

A. " a HUMAN BEING is PUT TOGETHER in the womb of the mother IN forty days, he's not saying that the SPERM STAYS in there for 40 days. 40 days after the last month in the first trimester around 120 days (112 to be exact )In the second trimester 16 weeks the skin is thin, transparent and still developing."


Rebuttal:


Actually what Con has failed to notice is Muhammad is giving clarification for the following verse (Stated in round 2):
"Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging. Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators. 23:12-13"

What Con has accidentally done is contradict the Qur'an. Muhammad was simply explaining this Ayah in a more detailed fashion and giving a timing for these events. Muhammad did not directly say that the sperm stays in the womb for 40 days but one cannot deduct anything else and not contradict the Qur'an.

The stages of the Qur'an are quite clear. 1, Sperm. 2, Clinging clot. 3, lump of flesh.

All Muhammad did was simply give a timing for those events and how they occur inside the womb. Muhammad said 1. A human being is put together in the womb in forty days. 2. THEN he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period. 3. THEN a piece of flesh for a similar period.

Even an Islamic website agrees with what I have said, http://islamicbulletin.org...

According to this site it is clearly stated that the sperm stays in the womb for 40 days. Up till now, you have not provided any evidence to refute this claim or give an explanation to how it can be scientifically explained.




B. " Take in consideration that this a broad description, with precision about the human creation and development at a time where there was NO SCIENTFIC KNOWLEDGE and any advanced medical equipment to acquire these facts."


Rebuttal:


This is why I made this debate in the first place. Muhammad claims that he is spoken to from God then he makes so many scientific mistakes that can not be avoided. Whether there was no scientific knowledge or not, God should have known that a sperm does not stay in the womb for 40 days in any possible way. He is claiming scientific knowledge from God, he shouldn't have said that it takes that long. Couldn't he say that it takes one day instead of 40? Would've been a little bit more correct and maybe one can give the benefit of the doubt due to the era this Hadith was presented in.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Conclusion:


My opponent responses are definitely lacking and provided no evidence to refute any of my claims. I have no more rounds for any further rebuttals, so I have tried my best to include everything in this round. I have provided evidence from Muhammad's own words that this simply cannot be from a man who was talked to by God. But simply a 7th century Arab who had very limited understanding of the world around him and this showed from the arguments I presented. Such mistakes could not have been made by an omniscient God in any possible way. I really hoped that my opponents arguments would've been much more detailed and backed by credible sources.

All in all, best of wishes. Good luck.


SeekTruth

Con

I seek Refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan, In the Name Allah Most Compassionate Most Merciful,AlProphet "Nor does he (Muhammad Pbuh) say (aught) of (his own) desire, it is no less than inspiration sent down to him" [S"rah al-Najm: 3-4]

Hello, hope you are well. Let us gain some understanding InshAllah ( God Willingly) between us my friend for we are all lost without the Perfect Light of Guidance from Allah

1. "WHO INFECTED THE FIRST ONE", is an indication and probably the most obvious statement made that clarifies the Prophet peace and blessings on him believed in infections and contracting diseases. He is speaking on a basis of cause and effect the is no infection, no safar no hama that happen with out the will and permission of Allah, Who gives his consents for all things to happen, Including life and death good health or sickness. The Last Messenger of The Almighty Allah PBUH is asking his companion this question in return to allow him to remember that Allah (God) alone The One and Only has power, might and control over all things. Also a Jewish lady attempted to harm The Prophet Pbuh was by poison and he was infected by it, so how could he not believe in something that affected him. Proves no logic behind your claim, read the story I related to you. The Prophet Pbuh also said this about contagious diseases
He also said: "The person who has a contagious disease should not approach a healthy person." [Sah"h Muslim (2221)] "Run away from the leper same as you would from a lion." [Sah"h al-Bukh"r" (5707) and Sah"h Muslim (2220) "If you hear that a land has been stricken by plague, do not approach it, and if your land is stricken by plague, do not leave it". [Sah"h al-Bukh"r" (5728)]
Your mistake defiantly not the Prophet's, PBUH. You have NO concrete argument or refutation, this is what your exactly doing giving your own false interpretation, on your opinion of the statements , when I simply give you the accurate Islamic interpretation. SIDE KEY NOTE MY FREIND, OPIONIONS IN DEBATES are insufficient and weightless. Also your translation you have copied from Google is highly inaccurate, pick up authentic books of Bukhari and Muslim. Also, the elegant Arabic language losses its appeal when translated in English so don't take the English as its precise translation.

2. Its very tricky when you translate Arabic to English be careful for friend, for the word that is being contested is nowhere near the word ejaculation. The Prophet Pbuh is actually speaking highly advanced and sophisticated on the process of fertilization. Muhammad Pbuh speaking of the SPERMATOZOA, a mature male germ cell, the specific output of the testes, which fertilizes the mature ovum (secondary oocyte) in sexual reproduction. When mature, the spermatozoa are carried in the semen, IT IS NOT the semen per se, it is the developed male germ cell. if spermatozoa are lodged long before ovulation then the activation of the male genes will be at a more advanced stage than those in the ovum."therefore they will play a greater role in showing the characteristics gained from the father especially if these genes follow co dominance or have complex inheritance characteristics." Renowned Doctor A.M, Department of Medicine at the highly acclaimed University of Nairobi, Kenya
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

3. Again you have taken a deficient translation of the Quran the Nutfah in no way is a sperm my friend. This is a common error amongst the non Arabic speakers . My refutation is valid and again you are speaking on your own opinions. Your claims are all dismissed do to the simply fact that your translations are all very rough and inaccurate.

Alhumdillah Praise be to Allah , Allah knows best. Allah says: "Of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you." [S"rah al-Isr": 85]
Debate Round No. 4
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SeekTruth 3 years ago
SeekTruth
12:3
We relate to you, [O Muhammad], the best of stories in what We have revealed to you of this Qur'an although you were, before it, among the unaware.

Believe or dont believe it is dependent on your soul and your soul only.

All of the pious and respected prophets and messengers of Allah wre turned away by the trangressors and arrogant ones, there narrations are preserved in Truth through the Divine Guidance sent straight to the Trustworthy and Honest Muhammad pbuh heart. There stories are related so they be of lessons and teachings for those who understand. Indeed Allah is Most Loving and Most Merciful. Allah knows Best in all
Posted by wateva232 3 years ago
wateva232
The truth according to you or Muslims in general. Christians believe they also speak the truth and the Jews, Zoroasters, Hindus, etc......

Second, I was a Muslim. I know this religion from the inside out. My whole life I've been studying Islam either through school or Friday prayers or speeches from Sheiks I used to attend in Ramadan.

But let me ask you something, why should I believe that Moses or Noah or Joseph existed and were historical people? Don't you find it odd that these people were simply forgotten from history? Maybe should one ask the question "Did they exist at all?".

Salam Alykum buddy.
Posted by SeekTruth 3 years ago
SeekTruth
A vote from Atheist and one who believes in false anti christ
Posted by SeekTruth 3 years ago
SeekTruth
I come speak the Truth of this world take or leave it it is only dependent on that person and his own soul and his life not anyone else.
Posted by SeekTruth 3 years ago
SeekTruth
vail of this world
Posted by SeekTruth 3 years ago
SeekTruth
The Only message and way of life that God Almighty has reaveled to the world through his messengers is to proclaim Islam which means submission, peace acquired by obedience and complete submission to 1 God, this is the basic and most fundemental teaching of all the noble Prophets of Allah from Adam to Noah to Ibrahim to Moses to Jesus to the last and Final Messenger of God Muhammad the Mercy to Mankind (may peace and blessings be upon them and their families). All the same ciriculim from one central Theacher that is God The All- Knowing the All- Wise. What I was referring to is inclusive of me and to all of mankind it says God says in the Quran about the ones who disbelieve that they will not know and the reality and the vail of this will not be lifted till we are in our dark swallow graves and all the contents are ejected out or burst out and we will be resurected by Allah The Just and we be held accountable for all that we have done On this day of Judegement. Salvation is through Allah the one and only, we worship The Creator of the Heavens and Earth not the creation.
Posted by wateva232 3 years ago
wateva232
Dude, no hate. I am not dissing you in anyway. I don't believe in Islam and I have a lot of reasons not to. I think I am entitled to my own beliefs just as you are to your own. But lets face the reality, you are a Muslim cause you were born a Muslim. Otherwise, we would be debating any of the other 16 major religions. If you were born in ancient Greece, you would worship Zeus and I would still be a non believer. I have every right to raise my concern and I didn't insult you or Islam in anyway.

But lets look at it from a different perspective. What if you're wrong? What if you worshipped your entire life the wrong God and it turns out to be Jesus in the end? Or Bahaa'ullah was truly the last prophet on earth? Or there is no God and you were worshipping nothing? Think of the possibilities.

So if I only to know the true God that has no evidence and nothing really to prove him and I can only be certain after I die and there is no return. Then God is really not that loving. He created me knowing fully that I will disbelieve and he know from the beginning that I will suffer for eternity when he knows he doesn't have any evidence for me to believe.

So thank you, maybe I will really know when all of my contents are "spit" from my grave. Really kind words of you sir. Threatening me is that it? Thank you again. In return, I can only tell you to live life to the fullest and have a happy productive life.

Salamu Alykum
Posted by SeekTruth 3 years ago
SeekTruth
you will only know till all the contents of your grave are spit out by the per,ission of Allah Almighty
Posted by wateva232 3 years ago
wateva232
NB;- my previous comment I forgot to write "present/firmly fixed" in both. My bad sorry.

If it is 1, then it is horribly wrong because when the egg is fertilized it goes through something called cortical reaction which blocks polyspermy.

If 2, Horribly wrong again. Male genes are the genes on the Y chromosome, they only provide sexual attributes of the male, nothing else. Activation of the Y genes occur during a later period after fertilization and it needs the activation of the female X chromosome to initiate. The starting sex for all fetuses is female due to the X chromosome, then if the other sex chromosome is Y, the fetus start giving the male characteristics after 6-7 of gestation.

There is nothing else called male genes. Plus, either sperm or egg contains only half of the genetic material and there is no activation of genes to give any resemblance or sex traits before fertilization occurs.

Lastly, "therefore they will play a greater role in showing the characteristics gained from the father especially if these genes follow co dominance or have complex inheritance "

Nonsense as I explained. Whoever wrote that is using complex words to make it look scientific while in fact it is nonsense masked by some scientific terminologies. Which makes me sure you don't really understand what you copy and pasted, you just pasted it without even checking.

Thank you.
Posted by wateva232 3 years ago
wateva232
Your clalim "The Prophet Pbuh is actually speaking highly advanced and sophisticated on the process of fertilization." Really? Seems to me not so much. Only believers seem to see these kind of things.

"Muhammad Pbuh speaking of the SPERMATOZOA, a mature male germ cell, the specific output of the testes, which fertilizes the mature ovum (secondary oocyte) in sexual reproduction." No complaint here on scientific knowledge, except Muhammad did not say that at all. Now this is an opinion, not a fact. I don't see that anywhere in the hadith. If Muhammad actually said that like how you said it, there would be no question of him being sent from God. I would believe right away.

"When mature, the spermatozoa are carried in the semen, IT IS NOT the semen per se, it is the developed male germ cell." What on earth does "spermatozoa are carried in the semen and it is not semen per se" mean? Spermatozoa is sperm, it is carried in the semen. Male germ cell is sperm again, you are just using different terminologies that leads to nothing.

"if spermatozoa are lodged long before ovulation then the activation of the male genes will be at a more advanced stage than those in the ovum." This claim is with no reference. Second, activation of genes does not occur until fertilization occurs. Third, this sentence is completely self contradictory and makes no sense. I am a biologist and I certainly cannot understand it, I even gave it to a Muslim friend and he raised an eyebrow. Are you sure you understand this or you just copy pasted and not quite sure what it means? Cause I am sure you don't really have a clue.

1- If a sperm is present before ovulation, then the activation of male genes will be at a more advanced stage than the sperm that is present in the ovum OR 2- if a sperm is present before ovulation, then the activation of male genes will be at a more advanced stage in contrast to the sperm being in the ovum.

Either 1 or 2, both are wrong. Explain in next comment
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Jakeross6 3 years ago
Jakeross6
wateva232SeekTruthTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: The Pro lays out a very good argument that really goes unchallenged. This was a pathetic debate on all standards due to the Con's conduct. From what I see here, I think that Con was just being overly religious and not really wanting to debate. The Resolution was proved to be correct.
Vote Placed by NiqashMotawadi3 3 years ago
NiqashMotawadi3
wateva232SeekTruthTied
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Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's challenge was to present three hadiths showing Mohammad committing scientific errors. He did so brilliantly and challenged his opponent to refute them. In the first hadeeth, Con simply ignored the words and the context, specifically the fact that Mohammad denied explicitly the existence of infections. In the second, he went into irrelevant responses that didn't address the scientific error while plagiarizing text when there was a rule against that. In the third, he made back-flipping apologetic such as " Quran the Nutfah in no way is a sperm my friend" when it could refer to a drop of semen. Con failed to refute Pro's hadeeths, and because he even forfeited one of the rounds, he loses both Conduct and Argument points. Con's performance was utterly disappointing.