The Instigator
Yehoshua
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
one2one
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Hellfire Doctrine is an Unscriptural Teaching

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/8/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 661 times Debate No: 101806
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

Yehoshua

Pro

I will debate that the Hellfire Doctrine is an unscriptural teaching. To begin, we know that God is loving from 1 John 4:8 so would any loving father burn his son or daughter forever and watch them suffer? Logically this completely goes against what the Scriptures teach.
one2one

Con

I accept the debate

Debate Format:


Round 1: Acceptance

Round 2: Arguments

Round 3: Rebuttals and Conclusions

*Note: no new arguments should be made in round 3 since the other party will not be able to respond.

Pro has burden of proof to show Hellfire doctrine is unscriptural.

Definitions:

Hellfire doctrine- The teaching that those who reject God and his way of salvation will be eternally separated from Him in Hell, through which they will experience agony.


Debate Round No. 1
Yehoshua

Pro

The Hellfire doctrine teaches something that would be neither loving nor just. For 80 or 90 years if someone sinned their whole life it still would not be deserving of *eternal* torment. Thus God, whose love and justice are unmatched could never put someone in eternal torment.
one2one

Con

Let me start by saying that this debate is about whether or not the doctrine of hell is found in scripture, not about whether we think it’s loving or just.

My argument will have 2 parts

1. The Scriptures on Hell
2. Why we must take these passages literally

The Scriptures on Hell

For a doctrine to be found to be biblical means different things to different people. Regardless of your Christian tradition and what they believe to be scriptural I think the mounds of evidence for this doctrine are irrefutable. I will now list some important clear passages on the existence of Hell, from just the New Testament [1].

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (Revelations 21:8)

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matthew 25:46)

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)


The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13: 41,42)

If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. (Mark 9:43)

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25: 41)

"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur" (Revelation 19:20)

Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

These are just some of the many passages on Hell from the New Testament. There is clear reference to the suffering of Hell, often described as fire. There is also clear reference to the eternal nature of Hell that it is not a temporary state but one that never ends.

Why We Must Take These Passages Literally

It is not uncommon for Jesus in the New Testament to use a literary device known as hyperbole. Hyperbole is an over exaggerated statement not to be taken literally. An example of this is Matthew 19: 24 "Again I tell you; it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."


This is an exaggeration used in order to get the attention of the people to reveal to them a particular truth about wealth and humility. Since no camel can fit through the eye of a needle it is obvious not to be taken literally.

The passages about Hell though do not fall into this category. Jesus is not appealing to any larger theme or idea so it’s hard to compare it to the example above. Also we not only see Jesus speak about Hell but also St. Paul in is epistles and St. John in his visions from Revelations. If these passages were hyperbole they would not be used by other New Testament writers in such a direct fashion.

In fact Jesus speaks almost twice as often about Hell as he does Heaven [2]. To say he is speaking in hyperbole would mean we must throughout all his teachings about heaven since they are equally as astonishing, but appears less. No Christian is willing to do this so we must also take literally His and the entire Bibles warning of Hell.



Debate Round No. 2
Yehoshua

Pro

My argument about Hellfire being neither loving nor just was not to say that this is about such. Rather, its purpose was to speak about God and His qualities of justice and love as described in the Scriptures. Does the God of the Scriptures sound like the kind of God that would murder and torture people forever?

Jesus spoke of the two greatest commandments being to first love God with your whole heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. What are the purposes for these being the greatest? Surely it preserves order, but beyond that, it means that we are loved by Him. He cares for us as a loving Father. Would a loving Father burn his son for doing something he had been told not to? Actually, there are Scriptures that speak of God forbidding the forcing of children to pass through the fire. The Hellfire doctrine is not Scriptural and is in fact blasphemy against God as it basically in that sense calls Him a hypocrite. In truth, the historical evidence shows that Hellfire is a doctrine used by the medieval church to strike fear into, extort, and control the people so that the church would remain dominant.

The first Scripture speaks of a second death. This along with the Scripture at Mark 9:43 refer to a furnace in Bible times known as "Gehenna" in Hebrew which was where trash was burned to ashes. As the Scriptures point out, dust returns to dust, so too do those who are wicked return to dust. That's it. No eternal life in torment, but rather, no eternity at all.

The Hellfire doctrine again blasphemes as it alludes to a cooperation between the satan (correct grammar, for this is a Hebrew term meaning opposer and not the devil's actual name), and God by saying that the satan is in cooperation, burning the wicked as if the Earth were just a conveyor belt sending some to heaven and others to fiery torment. The satan is not only an enemy of God, but is the main enemy of God. Thus their cooperation ceased at the Garden of Eden when the satan slandered and blasphemed God.
one2one

Con

I will now answer Pros argument from round 2

All Loving God Can’t Send Someone to hell

This argument makes no appeal to scripture whatsoever. For an argument to prove that Hellfire is not biblical it would need to use the scriptures to prove it. As much as a sentimental argument may be convincing to pro it fails in this debate which is about what the scriptures say.

This is enough of a response to discredit pros position, but for fun I will answer the non-biblical sentimental objection anyways.

First of all we must dispel the myth that God "sends" people to hell. Every soul that ends up in Hell ends up there because they chose to. God gives each soul sufficient grace to reach salvation, every soul that rejects this salvation, receives their reward which is Hell.

Another way to look at this is to understand what Jesus says in John 8:34 "Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin " [1]. We also know from the scriptures that "Nothing impure will ever enter it (heaven), nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelations 21:27). So we have 2 truths, one is that anyone who sins is a slave to sin, and nothing unclean will enter into heaven. So God cannot let sin into heaven. When we sin and refuse to repent we have chosen to be salves to sin and to attach ourselves to that sin. In reality we love our sin more than God. So God who must throw out all sin from his presence does so, in turn the souls of the dammed go with their sin because they have chosen to be a slave to it. This is the understanding of why souls end up in hell which has been around since the being of Christianity.

Pro who is a Jehovah Witness cannot wrap their mind around the eternal nature of Hell. But God has endowed every human with a rational soul, a rational soul which is immortal. Even the pagan philosopher Aristotle knew that the soul was immortal through reason alone [2]. So their reality of our human nature dictates that our afterlife, regardless of where we end up, must be eternal. I could go into the reason why our souls are immortal but I think that’s beyond the scope of this debate. It is enough to say the Bible nowhere advocates for the destruction of the souls in Hell.

Conclusion

In conclusion pro never uses the bible to show that Hell is unbiblical. So there is no way they can be credited with proving the resolution. I have provided evidence from the Bible to support my position.

Sources:
1. http://biblehub.com...
2. https://faculty.washington.edu...;

Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: FollowerofChrist1955// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Pro fails to provide evidence of nonscriptual reference data, citing opinion, and conjecture, where Con cites specific source material which uses direct use of terms as fiery, burning surfer and punishment within its context. Pro needed to establish that such content was not intended for people or for punishment, this burden was not found in Pros argument. But was clearly stated within the source data of Con suggesting such judgement is in fact eluded to with regard to second death. More source data that challenges Cons position was not provided for review, leaving little doubt of scriptural evidence availability in the Biblical narrative, which openly refutes Pros suggestion as Hell Fire being unscriptural.

[*Reason for removal*] Conduct and S&G are not explained.
************************************************************************
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
That you miss interpret scripture is your own failing not Scriptures. Your misconception of unbelieving as sons and daughters is false, and has always been false. God specifically tells you not to give what is Holy to the dogs, or cast pearls before pigs (Matthew 7:6). This scripture clearly proves your statement in error. The continuous battle with the Pharisee's also proves your error as they were believers and yet "not" saved.
The consummation of Aaron's children for the offering of wrong fire, is another example, of Gods supremacy and sovereignty loving yes, but Holy and righteous and justice. Man cannot comprehend the majesty of God in human terms, and many live wrongly by doing just that very thing. You are accountable, forgiven yes, but accountable for your own walk, to be paid by loss of reward and inheritance at the bema seat of God as spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person"s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved"even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Posted by one2one 1 year ago
one2one
Sources Which I forgot to add:
1. http://www.biblestudytools.com...
2.http://www.patheos.com...
Posted by one2one 1 year ago
one2one
up to the voters
Posted by Scruggs 1 year ago
Scruggs
@one2one, this should be an easy W lol
Posted by one2one 1 year ago
one2one
Okay I am kind of busy but I will accept.
Posted by Yehoshua 1 year ago
Yehoshua
Sorry about the extra comment.
Posted by Yehoshua 1 year ago
Yehoshua
This is serious.I am serious.
Posted by Yehoshua 1 year ago
Yehoshua
This is serious.
Posted by one2one 1 year ago
one2one
Is this a serious debate? If it is I will accept.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by samsun01 1 year ago
samsun01
Yehoshuaone2oneTied
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Reasons for voting decision: i think that hellfire doctrine is false