The Instigator
Impact94
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Hokey Pokey is What its All About

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Impact94
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 730 times Debate No: 85033
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

Impact94

Pro

The Hokey Pokey is what its all about.

First round is for acceptance,
Second round opening arguments,
Third round is for rebuttals
Fourth round is for more rebuttals and concluding arguments

Lets do this. This debate is existentially necessary. We absolutely have to do this right now.

imabench

Con

I accept this debate and will argue that doing the hokey pokey is NOT what its all about, because turning yourself around is an integral part of what its all about. To shine the light exclusively on the hokey pokey itself is to completely ignore the vital importance of turning yourself around, which is why I felt compelled to accept this debate

Over to you Pro
Debate Round No. 1
Impact94

Pro

Thank you imabench,I will now say why the hokey pokey absolutely is what its all about.

First, the lyrics of the song can be found here: http://www.metrolyrics.com...

- The Law of Series

over the past century, the Law of Series has been repeatedly observed without fail. It is a law which suggests that coincidence does not exist, and that all things that exist have a reason for existing. The Law of Series has also been called "meaningful coincidence".

In the early 1900's, Dr. Paul Kammerer was a scientist who first discovered this phenomenon. He writes, "On July 28, 1915, I experienced the following progressive series: (a) my wife was reading about "Mrs Rohan", a character in the novel Michael by Hermann Bang; in the tramway she saw a man who looked like her friend, Prince Josef Rohan; in the evening Prince Rohan dropped in on us. (b) In the tram she overheard somebody asking the pseudo-Rohan whether he knew the village of Weissenbach at Lake Attersee, and whether it would be a pleasant place for a holiday. When she got out of the tram, she went to the delicatessen shop on the Naschmarkt, where the attendant asked her whether she happened to know Weissenbach on Lake Attersee - he had to make a delivery by mail and did not know the correct postal address."

The famed psychologist Carl Jung himself seconded this idea. In his observation,
"Jung claims that in 1805, the French writer Émile Deschamps was treated to some plum pudding by a stranger named Monsieur de Forgebeau. Ten years later, the writer encountered plum pudding on the menu of a Paris restaurant, and wanted to order some, but the waiter told him the last dish had already been served to another customer, who turned out to be de Forgebeau. Many years later, in 1832, Émile Deschamps was at a diner, and was once again offered plum pudding. He recalled the earlier incident and told his friends that only de Forgebeau was missing to make the setting complete — and in the same instant, the now senile de Forgebeau entered the room."

Kammerer and Jung went on to observe even more instances of these real life events. In fact, Kammerer invented his own system describing the Law of Series and the importance of the 'coincidence' based on its number of immediate repetitions.

Therefore, if coincidence does not exist in the sense that most people perceive it to be, then the lyrics to the song "Hokey Pokey" must not be a coincidence, and must in fact be metaphysically meaningful in some way. Such as, "you do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around, that's what its all about".

- Collective Unconscious

Carl Jung also coined the theory of the collective consciousness, that all human beings are somehow unconsciously psychologically linked with one another. Considering the lyrics of the hokey pokey must then be linked with such a collective consciousness must mean that human beings somehow unconsciously know why the hokey pokey is the meaning of what its all about.

In Carl Jung's words, "The collective unconscious - so far as we can say anything about it at all - appears to consist of mythological motifs or primordial images, for which reason the myths of all nations are its real exponents. In fact, the whole of mythology could be taken as a sort of projection of the collective unconscious... We can therefore study the collective unconscious in two ways, either in mythology or in the analysis of the individual. (From The Structure of the Psyche, CW 8, par. 325.)."

And, to further prove this theory, the U.S. National Library of Medicine states, "Recently described social network phenomena show that emotionally connected people come to share certain traits, including obesity, happiness, and loneliness. These do not appear to be mediated by face-to-face contact. Other examples of groups with a common connection that act in unison are mass hysteria, menstrual synchrony, and the ability of a group to guess the number of jelly beans in a jar. The animal kingdom abounds with examples of groups functioning as a single whole: fish school, birds flock, hoofed animals herd, ant and bee colonies work as a single organism. Try as they might, neuroscientists have been unable to find an anatomical seat of consciousness within the brain. C.G. Jung's realization of a collective unconscious began with an observation of a patient whose thoughts matched previous writings that the patient had never seen. The "emotional telepathy" of social network phenomena suggests a collective/communal consciousness as well."

- The abstract meaning of the lyrics themselves include nihilist and absurdist influences.

The song is rediculous and meaningless, and that is why it is a description of 'what its all about'. Life itself is rediculous and meaningless. Absurdist and nihilist, in a sense. Well, maybe not nihilist, per se, but could we ever know? The only way to refute the hokey pokey is to say that we can know precisely what this dance means, but alas, we may never know what it means to "put your left foot in and shake it all about". Our entire lives are defined as an absurd dance full of fun and laughter, only to end when we 'turn ourselves about' by passing away with our last breath. Did it mean anything? maybe not. But did we have fun? Yes.

It's about being Albert Camus's hero, Sisyphus - doing something completely rediculous and possibly even meaningless repeatedly, but rebelling against the absurdity of it all by smiling and laughing at it.

And that is why the hokey pokey is what its all about.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
http://www.scholarpedia.org...
http://www.truthinsideofyou.org...

imabench

Con

1) The Law of Series

"If coincidence does not exist in the sense that most people perceive it to be, then the lyrics to the song "Hokey Pokey" must not be a coincidence, and must in fact be metaphysically meaningful in some way...."

Coincidence as we all know is a very debated topic in the scientific community, with many scientists chalking up miraculous occurrences to events that took place simply by chance, and others suggesting that its a much deeper science than that. One scientist in this article i have chosen to quote, who goes by the last name of Beitman, suggests that "dismissing coincidence as a matter of chance assumes that coincidences are inherently meaningless or insignificant. Without supporting evidence, this assumption is hardly scientific....” He then recognized the difficulty in scientifically proving coincidences are anything more than chance....

http://www.theepochtimes.com...

If it truly is coincidence that the lyrics to the sign came out the way they did, or even if there is a deeper meaning behind the organization of those words, is in the end irrelevent though, because the plain meaning of the words when put into proper context includes the phrase 'and you turn yourself around' right in between 'do the Hokey Pokey' and 'That's what its all about'. If coincidence is the case, then its a coincidence that doing the Hokey Pokey is included in the lyric in the first place, whereas if its not coincidence and that there is indeed a deeper meaning and science to the song as Beitman would argue that there is, then 'turning yourself around' is placed in the lyric for a legitimate reason, which means that 'Doing the Hokey Pokey' can only be what PART of it's all about, if anything at all.



2) Collective consciousness

"Considering the lyrics of the hokey pokey must then be linked with such a collective consciousness must mean that human beings somehow unconsciously know why the hokey pokey is the meaning of what its all about."

It could be equally valid to conclude that the collective consciousness of all people merely allows all people to unconsciously know THE LYRICS to the Hokey Pokey, not necessarily the meaning behind the words themselves or the true meaning of the song....

In 2008 a study im pretending that is real was carried out where 100 men at the mall were shown pictures of other men looking bored at the mall because their girlfriends dragged them to the mall to shop, leaving the men bored out of their minds.... All 100 men who were shown the pictures felt empathy for the men in the pictures because they consciously or unconsciously knew the pain and suffering those men in the pictures were facing, being able to relate to them on a personal level.... When asked to evaluate what the men in the pictures were THINKING about though, rather then just note the experience they were going through, the 100 male responders gave a variety of answers/guesses, ranging from 'The man is sad because he is missing the football game on TV right now' to 'The man is sad because he thinks he is dating the wrong twin', with some answers even being 'The man is sad because his in-laws will be in town soon and precious alone time is being wasted by being at the mall'....

This study indicates that while collective consciousness is a reasonable but debated concept, the amount of information that people could gather from collective consciousness is very basic, meaning it is implausible to argue that people simply KNOW that the Hokey Pokey is what its all about based on this science. It can only be argued that people know the LYRICS to the Hokey Pokey, but nothing more.


Furthermore If there was a collective conscious that the "Hokey Pokey" was what it is all about, then why is it that different cultures have different translations of what exactly it is that its all about.

The UK knows the song as 'The Hokey Cokey'
In New Zealand its known as 'The Hokey Tokey"
In the Phillippines its known as 'The Boogie Boogie'
In Denmark its sung as 'The Boogie Woogie'

https://en.wikipedia.org...

The collective consciousness knowing that the Hokey pokey is what its all about is therefore invalidated by the fact that cultures cannot even agree on what it is that it is all about!



3) Greko-Philosophical standpoint vs Einsteinian-Relativity standpoint on 'The Hokey Pokey'

In Ancient Greece, the Philosopher Aristotle came to the Metaphysical conclusion that "The whole is MORE than the sum of its parts' in that outside of a case in mathematics, machines or concepts that serve a purpose or service to humanity are on a whole worth more to society than all of the things that actually puts together the machine or concept in the first place.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Albert Einstein though later offered a contention that the Sum was NOT greater than all of its parts, and that from a physics and relativity standpoints, the sum is in fact LESS than all of its parts due to concepts of decay and binding energy...

http://www.einstein-online.info...

The debate about whether the Hokey Pokey is or isnt what its all about derives to a standoff between both sides depending on whether they accept the Greko-classical argument or the Einstein-modern argument on the matter. If we accept the latter, than the Hokey Pokey is NOT what its all about, and that infact, it is even less than putting ones body parts in, putting ones body parts out, and shaking ones body parts all about.

Accepting the Greko-classical argument favors that the Hokey Pokey is what its all about, but conflicts with existing and testable evidence indicating otherwise



4) Meaning

"The only way to refute the hokey pokey is to say that we can know precisely what this dance means, but alas, we may never know what it means"

The dance means exactly what it is perceived to mean based on the plain reading of the lyrics though, which read off like cooking instructions.... Putting one's left hand 'in', for example, implies sticking a persons hand inside or towards a pre-determined and pre-agreed upon zone or location by the people who are participating in the song.... Then to put one's left hand 'out' is an instruction to then remove the persons hand from inside or towards the pre-agreed upon location, and instead point it at an inverse, opposite direction or location away from the pre-determined zone, often located at the center of the group that has gathered to perform the dance...... Finally, to put one's left hand in and shake it all about' is to simply repeat what the first step of the song entails, with the added condition of then shaking it around wildly in a timely matter in accordance to the lyrics of the song.... These steps are then repeated with other body parts until the song concludes.

Since the Hokey Pokey can be explained and defined, by your own admission now the Hokey Pokey can be 'refuted', meaning it can be concluded that it is NOT 'what its all about'



"Sisyphus - doing something completely rediculous and possibly even meaningless repeatedly"

Like spelling 'Ridiculous' with an 'E' instead of an 'I' right?

Jkjk ;D
Debate Round No. 2
Impact94

Pro

- Law of Series

My opponent recognizes in their counterargument that the lyrics are ultimately absurd, which is the point I was trying to make; the song is absurd and is therefore a reflection of the absurd reality of life.

"If coincidence is the case, then its a coincidence that doing the Hokey Pokey is included in the lyric in the first place, whereas if its not coincidence and that there is indeed a deeper meaning and science to the song as Beitman would argue that there is, then 'turning yourself around' is placed in the lyric for a legitimate reason, which means that 'Doing the Hokey Pokey' can only be what PART of it's all about, if anything at all"

It may be argued that 'turning yourself around' is an unconscious metaphor for passing away. Therefore, you 'do the hokey pokey' - living the absurd existential life - and then you turn yourself around. What was it all for? nobody knows. It's absurd. Again, we are all living the lives of sisyphus.

- Collective Unconscious

That my opponent has made up their own fictitious study in order to refute the notion that the hokey pokey is a reflection of the meaning of life should already invalidate this refutation, but neverthess:

"you do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around, that's what its all about" is contained within the song, implying "that's what its all about" concerns the nature of the meaning of "what its all about", or in other words, "what the meaning of life is", which is "the hokey pokey" which is "absurd".

- Aristotle vs Einstein

If I took apart a camera, all of its pieces would be useless. If I held all the taken apart parts in my hand, it would still be useless. However if I put the camera back together again, then I now have something I can take a picture with. In this way, the whole is more than the sum of its parts.

Einstein would have been right in terms of science, but looking at things philosophically is about understanding things as they are and what their ultimate meaning is, whereas science only shows us hard facts that tell us neither what something is nor what its ultimate meaning is.

- Literalism

Ultimately my opponent is taking the lyrics too literally. In order to understand the genius of the hokey pokey, one must look at it symbolically; philosophically. Philosophy and science are not the same schools of thought ultimately and although they can be used together it would be a mistake to consider them to be the exact same thing.


imabench

Con

It is in my interest that voters go ahead and vote Pro
Debate Round No. 3
Impact94

Pro

Thusly, the answer to the age-old existential philosophical question of the meaning of life is The Hokey Pokey.



Little did all of you know that when you learned the hokey pokey as a kid in preschool, you were actually being taught heavy topics about the nature of of whether or not life really has any meaning at all or not.



And also chicken alfredo. Chicken alfredo is the most tasty italian dish. And donuts are especially delicious. Sombreros.
imabench

Con

"Chicken alfredo is the most tasty italian dish"

Who in their right mind would think otherwise?
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by MakeSensePeopleDont 1 year ago
MakeSensePeopleDont
@Impact94 -- You think the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about? Well apparently you have not heard. Have you not heard? It was my understanding that everyone had heard...Heard what you ask?

https://www.youtube.com...

OH WELL THE BIRD, BIRD, BIRD, BIRD BIRD IS THE WORD. OH WELL THE BIRD, BIRD, BIRD, BIRD BIRD IS THE WORD. OH WELL THE BIRD, BIRD, BIRD, BIRD BIRD IS THE WORD. OH WELL THE BIRD, BIRD, BIRD, BIRD BIRD IS THE WORD. BRIAN DON'T YOU KNOW ABOUT THE BIRD? WELL PETER IS GOING TO TELL YOU ABOUT THE BIRD. OH WELL THE BIRD, BIRD, BIRD, BIRD BIRD IS THE WORD. OH WELL THE BIRD... SURFINNN BIRD.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Forever23 1 year ago
Forever23
Impact94imabenchTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession lol