The Instigator
Stranger1221
Pro (for)
The Contender
BrendanD19
Con (against)

The IRA DID 9/11

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/30/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 409 times Debate No: 98532
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (1)
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Stranger1221

Pro

We might start with reports from the day, and the numbers of phone calls the Irish Government received from worried relatives.

The Irish Ministry of Foreign Affairs says it has received between 2,500 and 3,000 calls to its dedicated phone lines and has set up a database of those unaccounted for.
http://news.bbc.co.uk...

And yet, if we look online we find only Irish citizen died ( http://www.september11victims.com... ). Only one? In New York? That's surely suspicious. Why did so many Irishman not turn up for work on 9/11? Who could have told them?

Maybe it was the NYPD, or someone in the Fire Department. After all, there's no shortage of Irish families there. Or as this article put it:

The FDNY, thus, remains a "family business." It just so happens that many of those families were " and are " Irish.
http://www.irishabroad.com...

That"s just circumstantial, but we have much more, including Irishmen reported suspiciously close to the scene:

FOUR Irish construction workers, feared dead by their families in the World Trade Center attack, turned up alive, although seriously injured, under different names in a Manhattan hospital.

The four, all natives of Co Cavan in Ireland, were among the first evacuated from the World Trade Center where they had been working under assumed names...

The Sinn Fein MP who was asked by the families to intervene, confirmed to the Irish Voice on Tuesday that the men had been found.

Earlier this week he had called on the INS to issue a statement that they would not prosecute any undocumented who were caught up in the blast.

The INS subsequently did so, and the story of the men began to emerge. Because the men are undocumented and also worked under false names, they greatly feared INS prosecution.

There have been persistent reports in the Irish community about the men since the World Trade Center blasts, though none substantiated until now.

As the Irish Voice reported last week, another undocumented Irish worker using false identification who narrowly escaped with his life stated that he saw many other Irish undocumented construction workers going up to a higher floor on the morning that the blasts occurred.

While stressing that they may have all come down safely, he says he has no information on their whereabouts.

Meanwhile, fears of INS consequences for illegals have been abated with a statement from INS commissioner James Ziglar.

According to Ziglar, any employer who lost illegally employed workers in the World Trade Center will not suffer government prosecution, nor will the workers themselves.
http://web.archive.org...

"Construction workers" in the WTC? That"s a very convenient cover for planting explosives, and the fact that they were working under assumed names is very suspect. We have more "Irish undocumented construction workers going up to a higher floor" on 9/11, and note the Freudian slip, "on the morning that the blasts occurred". Were these Irishmen actually part of the demolition team, making final preparations for the "blasts" that would bring down the towers?

Of course these men on their own couldn't have been responsible for the whole thing. But let's look at their connections for a moment. Note that they spoke first of all to a Sinn Fein member of Parliament: do you recall why Sinn Fein were in the news, just weeks before September 11?

...the news that three well-known members of the Provisional IRA were being held in custody after apparently taking part in a five-week summer training camp with a Colombian terrorist group had thrown another spoke in the wheels of the peace process.

Exactly what the IRA men were up to in the malaria-ridden jungles of South America remains a mystery. But one thing is for certain, nobody believes they were merely engaged in "sightseeing", as they have told prosecutors...

Sinn Fein has been trying to distance itself from the three men, but the crampons the party hierarchy attached to the moral high ground after Unionists rejected the IRA's moves on decommissioning have begun to slip.
http://www.guardian.co.uk...

It seems these IRA men were accused of working with "the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), a well-armed... guerrilla group funded by drug money". So what? Well, FARC have interesting connections of their own.

One point in the original proffer made the case for links between FARC and al Qaida, including the presence of FARC personnel in Afghanistan as part of a close relationship between the two groups. "It is believed that FARC terrorists have received training in Al Qaida terrorist caps in Afghanistan," Beers says in the original document.
http://sandiego.indymedia.org...

So could FARC's admitted "close relationship" with al Qaida have aided the Irish masterminds of this plot in setting up their patsies? Perhaps there was a Columbian motive in gaining a share of the distribution end of the lucrative opium market, which could restart once the Taliban had been overthrown.

Was there American involvement in the plot, though? Maybe so. Consider the article earlier: the "undocumented" workers at the WTC, potentially important witnesses. Were they questioned to find out what they were doing? No, the INS simply agreed to let them go, and they were flown out of the country in a hurry. Don"t you find that strange?

And then there"s Richard Haas, US special envoy from President Bush himself. Where do you think he was on September 11 2001? Why, in Dublin -- what a coincidence... And not one you"ll find mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report.

Richard Haass, then a United States special envoy, was in Dublin for a meeting with Bertie Ahern, then Taoiseach (Irish Prime Minister), when news of the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington were passed to the two men. Richard Haass decided to continue with his meetings in Dublin and then to travel to Belfast for pre-arranged meetings with political leaders in Northern Ireland.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk...

Haas would surely have met Richard Egan, the US Ambassador to Dublin, while he was there. And look who Egan was photographed meeting, only a month later:

Ambassador Richard Egan was photographed meeting Joe Cahill, the former head of the IRA's financial network...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

The same article tells us that "Egan is a former businessman from Massachusetts who was the founder and CEO of EMC, a computer data storage company". EMC? Look into them and you'll find they're a big player in the IT world, who work with Government agencies and have done very well since 9/11, according to this "Homeland Security and National Defense" section in Fortune magazine:

Automated networked storage solutions from EMC are currently being utilized by many federal and regional government agencies, as well as by leading corporations around the world. Higgins noted that, since 9/11, corporations have focused on the need to implement systems...
http://www.timeinc.net...

Are we supposed to believe this is all just a coincidence?
BrendanD19

Con

The argument made by the pro is very odd indeed and many pieces of it don't seem to go together. There is a part of me which thinks the Pro is simply trolling.

Many of the examples of Irish people affected by the attacks do not link in any way to the proposal that the IRA committed the 9/11 attacks.
His first claim seeming to link to any theory surrounding the perpetrators of the attacks seems to be connected to four Irish construction workers who were in the US illegally. The pro alleges that these construction workers could have planted explosives in the twin towers. This would mean that the September 11th attacks were not hijackings, but was simply a bombing. This doesn't change the fact, though, that airplanes crashed into each tower. The argument made does not add up to the facts.

The pro then points to the case of the Colombian 3, and then points out that the FARC was alleged to have ties to Al Qaeda, however in the article used by the Pro to support this claim, it actually points out the US government lied about the FARCs ties to Al Qaeda, so this claim can be dismissed.

The Pro then moves to allege US government involvement in 9/11 alongside the IRA, by pointing out that Richard Haas was in Dublin on September 11, 2001. He points to Richard Haas, however, I fail to understand how this links to the allegations mad by the Pro, as he then points to Richard Egan, who met with the former chief of staff of the IRA and Egan was a founder of EMC, which profited from contracts secured post 9/11. This simply does not add up to US officials, or simply Egan alone, working with the IRA. Egan had only arrived in Ireland a month earlier, and Egan resigned from EMC in January of 2001. A conspiracy such as 9/11 would have taken years of planning and coordination, and this would not have been possible for Egan since he had only arrived in Ireland a month before.

Are we supposed to believe these are all coincidences? Yes, because none of them are interconnected and none of them support the conclusion the IRA was behind 9/11.

Moreover, there is nothing to suggest the IRA had anything to do with 9/11.
The IRA would have had no motive to attack the US. While the IRA had been very critical of US foreign policy, the Irish American community was one of its main sources of funds and arms during the Troubles, and American support for their message remained high even after the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. By attacking the US and killing thousands of Americans, the IRA would have destroyed any support it had among the Irish American community. Additionally, it would have halted the Northern Ireland peace process in its tracks, something which the IRA had been working to comply with since the agreement was signed in 1998.
We can also see that the 9/11 attacks themselves have nothing in common with IRA tactics. After a bomb was planted, the IRA would make a phone call to someone, usually chosen at random, telling them either the general time or a clue as to the location. No warnings of this type were made prior to the 9/11 attacks. Additionally, the IRA never used suicide attacks as a tactic. 9/11 has no similarities to IRA attacks at all and there is simply no motive for it.
It is clear from this that the IRA had nothing to do with 9/11.
Debate Round No. 1
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Debate Round No. 2
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by ILikePie5 1 year ago
ILikePie5
We all know Bush did 9/11
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