The "Immortal Soul"
Debate Rounds (5)
I will present my case based on the scriptures, that this belief and teaching Is a man made doctrine not found anywhere in scriptures.
My opponent "Hebrew-Israelite" contends that the scriptures teach we do.
It will be incumbent upon him to show from scripture that the bible teaches we do Have a Immortal "Soul" that lives outside the body when it dies.
Round 1 is for acceptance and rounds 2-5 is to make our cases.
No where do we read "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, MAKNG MAN A LIVING BODY AND THEN GAVE MAN A LIVING SOUL."
According to scripture it was first the lifeless shell carcass that was formed, then God breathed the "breath of life" into Adam that caused Adam to "BECOME" a "LIVING SOUL"
According to the account the "breath of life" MERGED with the lifeless Carcass that was formed from the dust of the earth making man himself a "Living Soul"
Many people think the Bible says we have an immortal soul destined, at death, for heaven, hell or purgatory. What does the Bible say?
Magnifying glass over the words Holy Bible.
Does the Bible talk about the immortal soul?
What happens to us after we die? Where are our loved ones who have passed on? Will we ever see them again?
Everyone needs to know that life has purpose, that death isn't the permanent end of our existence. The most common Christian belief regarding the afterlife is that people possess souls and at death their consciousness in the form of that soul departs from the body and heads for heaven or hell.
Most religions teach some form of life after death. The ancient Egyptians, for example, practiced elaborate ceremonies to prepare the pharaohs for their next life. They constructed massive pyramids and other elaborate tombs filled with luxuries the deceased were assumed to need in the hereafter.
In some civilizations when a ruler died others who had accompanied and served him in his life were put to death so they could immediately serve him in the afterlife. Wives and other relatives, servants, sometimes even household pets joined him in death and a supposed entrance into a new life on the other side.
Belief in the immortality of the soul was an important aspect of ancient thought espoused by the Greek philosophers Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. Plato, in Phaedo, presents Socrates' explanation of death: "Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and body is released from the soul, what is this but death?" ( Five Great Dialogues, Classics Club edition, 1969, p. 93).
Socrates explained that the immortal soul, once freed from the body, is rewarded according to good deeds or punished for evil. Socrates lived ca. 470-399 B.C., so his view of the soul predated Christianity.
Plato (ca. 428-348 B.C.) saw man's existence as divided into the material and spiritual, or "Ideal," realms. "Plato reasoned that the soul, being eternal, must have had a pre-existence in the ideal world where it learned about the eternal Ideals" (William S. Sahakian, History of Philosophy, 1968, p. 56). In Plato's reasoning, man is meant to attain goodness and return to the Ideal through the experiences of the transmigration of the soul. Thus secular philosophies sanction the idea of the immortal soul, even though the Bible does not. Believe it or not, God's Word teaches something entirely different.
The doctrine of the immortal soul caused much controversy in the early Catholic Church.
Origen (ca. 185-254) was the first person to attempt to organize Christian doctrine into a systematic theology. He was an admirer of Plato and believed in the immortality of the soul and that it would depart to an everlasting reward or everlasting punishment at death.
In Origen De Principiis he wrote: "... The soul, having a substance and life of its own, shall after its departure from the world, be rewarded according to its deserts, being destined to obtain either an inheritance of eternal life and blessedness, if its actions shall have procured this for it, or to be delivered up to eternal fire and punishments, if the guilt of its crimes shall have brought it down to this ..." ( Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, 1995, p. 240).
Origen taught that human souls existed before the body but are imprisoned in the physical world as a form of punishment. Physical life, he reasoned, is a purification process to return humans to a spiritual state.
Later Augustine (354-430) tackled the problem of the immortality of the soul and death. For Augustine death meant the destruction of the body, but the conscious soul would continue to live in either a blissful state with God or an agonizing state of separation from God.
In The City of God he wrote that the soul "is therefore called immortal, because in a sense, it does not cease to live and to feel; while the body is called mortal because it can be forsaken of all life, and cannot by itself live at all. The death, then, of the soul, takes place when God forsakes it, as the death of the body when the soul forsakes it" ( Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 2, 1995, p. 245.)
The influences of pagan Platonic philosophy on Origen and Augustine are profound. Richard Tarnas, in his best-seller The Passion of the Western Mind, points to this influence: "... It was Augustine's formulation of Christian Platonism that was to permeate virtually all of medieval Christian thought in the West. So enthusiastic was the Christian integration of the Greek spirit that Socrates and Plato were frequently regarded as divinely inspired pre-Christian saints ..." (1991, p. 103).
Centuries later Thomas Aquinas (ca. 1225-1274) crystallized the doctrine of the immortal soul in The Summa Theologica. He taught that the soul is a conscious intellect and will and cannot be destroyed.
A few centuries later the leaders of the Protestant Reformation generally accepted these traditional views, so they became entrenched in traditional Protestant teaching.
The immortality of the soul is foundational in Western thought, both philosophical and religious. Belief in going to heaven or hell depends on it. But does the Bible teach that death is the separation of body and soul or that the soul is immortal?
Hebrew Understanding of the Soul
The Hebrew word translated "soul" in the Old Testament is nephesh, which simply means "a breathing creature." Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words defines nephesh as "the essence of life, the act of breathing, taking breath ... The problem with the English term 'soul' is that no actual equivalent of the term or the idea behind it is represented in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew system of thought does not include the combination or opposition of the 'body' and 'soul' which are really Greek and Latin in origin" (1985, p. 237-238, emphasis added).
The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible makes this comment on nephesh: "The word 'soul' in English, though it has to some extent naturalized the Hebrew idiom, frequently carries with it overtones, ultimately coming from philosophical Greek (Platonism) and from Orphism and Gnosticism which are absent in 'nephesh.' In the OT it never means the immortal soul, but it is essentially the life principle, or the living being, or the self as the subject of appetite, and emotion, occasionally of volition" (Vol. 4, 1962, "Soul," emphasis added).
That nephesh doesn't refer to an immortal soul can be seen in the way the word is used in the Old Testament. It is translated "soul" or "being" in reference to man in Genesis:2:7, but also to animals by being translated "creature" in Genesis:1:24. Nephesh is translated "body" in Leviticus:21:11 in reference to a human corpse.
The Hebrew Scriptures state plainly that, rather than possess immortality, the soul can and does die. "The soul [ nephesh ] who sins shall die" (Ezekiel:18:4, Ezekiel:18:20).
The Old Testament describes the dead as going to sheol, translated into English as "hell," "pit" or "grave." Ecclesiastes:9:5-6
describes sheol as a place of unconsciousness: "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished ..."
King David laments that death extinguishes a relationship with God. "For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give You thanks?" (Psalm:6:5).
The immortal-soul concept isn't part of the Old Testament, but it began to make inroads into Jewish thought as Jews came in contact with Greek culture. In the first century the Jewish philosopher Philo taught a Platonic concept: "... The death of a man is the separation of his soul from his body ..." ( The Works of Philo, translated by C.D. Yonge, 1993, p. 37). Philo followed the Hellenistic view that the soul is freed upon death to an everlasting life of virtue or evil.
In the New Testament the Greek word translated "soul" is psuche, which is also translated "life."
In Psalm:16:10 David uses nephesh ("soul") to claim that the "Holy One," or Messiah, wouldn't be left in sheol, the grave. Peter quotes this verse in Acts:2:27, using the Greek psuche for the Hebrew nephesh (notice verses 25-31).
Like nephesh, psuche refers to human "souls" (Acts:2:41) and for animals (it is translated "life" in the King James Version of Revelation:8:9 and Revelation:16:3). Jesus declared that God can destroy man's psuche, or "soul" (Matthew:10:28).
If the Old Testament describes death as an unconscious state, how does the New Testament describe it?
No one wrote more about this subject than the apostle Paul. He describes death as "sleep" (1 Corinthians:15+
Many people are surprised to find that the term immortal soul appears nowhere in the Bible. However, though the Scriptures do not speak of the soul as being immortal, they have much to say about immortality. For example: "You know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" (1 John:3:15).
The SPIRIT that God Gave when breathing into mans nostril, returns to God when the body dies. Not "SOUL"
Hebrew-Israelite forfeited this round.
Hebrew-Israelite forfeited this round.
TRUTH NUMBER 1
[A] "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).
[B] "It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies]; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies]"" (I Cor. 15:44).
[C] "Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY"" (Phil. 3:21).
[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).
The sequence of God"s plan of salvation for mankind is most important"First is the physical and then comes the spiritual.
Without the knowledge of this principle of Scripture, it is impossible to understand what man is and what is his destiny. Have you not been taught that the first Adam was indeed a "quickening, living, immortal spirit," and that afterward, at the resurrection; his immortal soul will be given an ETERNAL PHYSICAL BODY? (Then there is also the ungodly doctrine called the "Law of Circularity" which teaches that we have always existed as spirits, and are now spirits having a physical experience"just the opposite of the truth).
It was the natural body of Adam that became a living soul after God breathed into him. And that living soul was subject to death (Gen. 2:17 and Ezek. 18:4 & 20). Even this simple, straight-forward truth of Scripture is universally denied.
God said that Adam would "SURELY die" (Gen. 2:17). But most have been taught that Adam was an immortal, spiritual soul that can NEVER, EVER DIE. I just received a DVD from Internationally famous, self-styled prophet, Jack Van Impe, in which it is stated: "Once we are born, WE NEVER DIE." Jack Van Impe parrots that Old Serpent who told the world"s first recorded lie, when he said: "you shall NOT SURELY die" (Gen. 3:4)
It is universally taught (and believed) that Adam and Eve were already formed and created in the very spiritual image of God way back in the garden. This is not, however, how the Hebrew manuscripts read, as a perfect creature formed in the very spiritual image of God, that not only does not sin, but cannot sin. The reason that Jesus (made unto sinful flesh) did not sin, was not that He could not sin, but rather His Father WOULD NOT LET HIM SIN. Jesus was born with a physical body, and therefore that body had to die. But I assure you that Jesus did not possess a "carnal mind" in that body of flesh. He sinned NOT.
Making mankind into God"s own Image is a process that involves a lifetime of trials and tribulations that includes the crucifying and mortifying of the carnal human mind and body. I realize that from the King James and many modern translations it sounds like it was a "past tense" made in His image at creation, but actually it was not. Gen. 1:26-27 is equivalent to our English imperfect. Here is how one Version translates it:
"And saying is God, Make WILL WE [a continuing action] humanity in Our image""
"And CREATING [a continuing action] is God humanity in His image" (Gen. 1:26a & 27a Concordant Literal Old Testament),
Man is not a "spirit being" having a "physical" experience, but rather man is a "physical and mortal" being having a "spiritual" experience. We are first born mortal [physical], but in the resurrection God gives us immortality (the spiritual). Throw away this marvelous truth of Scripture, and you will be as deceived as Kenneth Copeland when he stated that when Adam was created, he was so shining, so glorious, so spiritual, so GOD-like, that one could not even see his body for the glorious radiance of his spirituality. Oh really? And is that why he was "naked," although he ""knew not that he was wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and NAKED" (Gen. 3: 7 versus Rev. 3:17)?
Just prior to Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, we read that Eve:
""saw that the tree was good for food ["the lust of the flesh," I John 2:16],
and that it was pleasant to the eyes ["the lust of the eyes," I John 2:16],
and a tree to be desired to make one wise ["the pride of life," I John 2:16],
she did eat" and he did eat" (Gen. 3:6).
It is not just the eating of the fruit that was a sin, but the "lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and pride of life" that went before the eating. And just why were they so filled with sin at their very creation? Because they were in the "perfect spiritual image of GOD?" Poppycock. They were natural, physical, carnal, and ""the carnal mind [with which Adam and Eve were created] is enmity [hatred] against God, for it is not subject to the law of God ["But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it"" Gen. 2:17], neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).
So, do the Scriptures really teach what the world has been taught"that Adam and Eve were made into the perfect spiritual "image of God?" Get real.
Here is how GOD says He created Adam and Eve:
"For the creature was made subject to vanity [King James Margin: "futility"], not willingly, but by reason of Him [God] Who has subjected [Gk: "subjects""aorist tense"subjecting is still going on] the same in hope" (Rom. 8:20).
In Dante"s inferno, "all hope is gone"," but in God"s realm He subjects the entire creation ""in HOPE,"
God willfully, wantingly, knowingly, purposely, and wisely, created mankind "subject to vanity," subject to failure, but beyond the failure, God also subjects the same in "hope." Once again, contrary to all orthodox doctrine, there is hope for all of God"s carnal-minded, God-hating people on planet Earth. God Himself says so, in the same breath: "because the creature itself [the same creation that God subjects to vanity, futility, failure, and carnal-minded hatred against God] also shall be [ah, did you catch that? "shall be"], delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" (Rom. 8:21). Do you believe the Scriptures? Really"what about this one?
And so God, "made the creature subject to vanity""failure, but later in mankind"s development, the creature "shall be"" [future tense]" shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption." Ah yes, God created them in a condition of "bondage" and "corruption," and therefore not "immortal" as is taught, but rather in "bondage of corruption." But thanks to God, in the resurrection of the dead, ""this corruption must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (I Cor. 15:54).
Yes, of course, first comes the PHYSICAL (death), and then the SPIRITUAL (life). There it is"the hope of all humanity. Corruption and mortality (the physical first) must put on incorruption and immortality [the afterward spiritual).
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