The Incredibles + Frozone (10 years older from their current ages) vs The Avengers
Debate Rounds (4)
This debate will be about a theoretical fight between the Incredibles (aged 10 years older than their age in the 2004 movie) plus Frozone from the 2004 movie 'The Incredibles' and the animated short 'Jack Jack Attack', against the original Avengers of the Marvel Cinematic Universe movie 'The Avengers'. I will be arguing on the side of the Incredibles + Frozone, Con will be arguing on the side of the Avengers.
1 - Voters will vote based on who they believe would win in a theoretical fight between both sides based on the arguments presented in this debate.
2 - The battle will take place in a neutral environment, meaning that neither side can place the battle in a specific location in order to provide a better advantage for the side they are arguing for. This battle will focus entirely on the powers and traits of the superheroes on both sides, no third-party factors are allowed.
3 - The powers of the Incredibles is based on the 2004 movie 'The Incredibles', and the animated short 'Jack-Jack attack'. The powers of the Avengers is based on the 2012 film 'The Avengers' and all previous Marvel films about those superheroes from 2008 to 2012.
4 - 4 rounds, 4000 characters, 24 hours between rounds. No trolling or excessive semantics (because this is a very hypothetical debate not grounded in reality both sides can take some liberties in warping reality to argue their cases)
5 - No third parties are allowed to be included in the fight (Except Frozone, to make the number of people on both teams even at 6), meaning that this theoretical fight can ONLY include characters listed below.
Characters from The Incredibles:
1 - Bob Parr aka Mr. Incredible = 55 years old = Super strength
2 - Helen Parr aka Elastigirl = 50 years old = Stretch into any position
3 - Violet Parr = 25 years old = Invisibility and can generate forcefields
4 - Dash Parr = 20 years old = Super Speed
5 - Jack Jack Parr = 10 years old = Shoot lasers from his eyes, teleport, turn into fire, turn into heavy bulletproof steel, turn into small version of Hulk
6 - Lucius Best aka Frozone = 55 years old = Create ice and snow
Characters from the Avengers (Con can ONLY cite powers for each superhero that were present in the 2012 Avengers movie and from previous marvel movies films from 2008 to 2012)
1 - Iron Man - Suit of armor that can fly, fire powerful lasers for a short time, fire repulser blasts from his palms, feet, and chest, etc....
2 - Captain America - Strong soldier and martial arts expert who carries a shield that cannot be damaged
3 - Thor - Nordic God who can fly and summon/fire lightning with his hammer
4 - The Hulk - Can grow to be very strong and get very pissed off
5 - Black Widow - Martial Arts expert who is also a firearms expert
6 - Hawkeye - Martial arts expert who is also a bow and arrow expert
1st round acceptance only
In this round Ill focus on the weaknesses of the Avengers and why they would lose in potential fights against The Incredibles
1) Hawkeye and Black Widow
Hawkeye and Black Widow, though technically avengers, do not possess any superpowers or any abilities that can match having actual superpowers, meaning any prospective 1v1 fights between them and any of the Incredibles/Frozone would be laughably one-sided. Dash is quick enough to evade any strikes from them, Helen Parr is stretchy enough where she could simply wrap herself around either Hawkeye or Black Widow to restrain them, Violet Parr can turn completely invisible so neither Hawkeye or Black Widow would be able to detect them, Bob Parr could outmuscle his way through them when fighting them, and Jack Jack at age 10 would be able to choose from any multitude of powers to withstand Hawkeye or Black Widow. The only one either of them could have a shot at subduing is Frozone, but against everyone else, Hawkeye and Black Widow are outmatched and practically a non-factor in any team fight between the Incredibles and the Avengers
The Hulk of course has super strength that arguably is matched by that of Mr Incredible himself. However, the Hulk lacks complete control over his powers, whereas Mr Incredible does not. The Hulk has turned against his own teammates in battle on multiple occasions whereas, meaning Mr Incredible has far more control over his powers than the Hulk, making Mr. Incredible better. Jack-Jack meanwhile has hulk powers of his own, meaning a showdown of heroes with super-strength could result in a 2v1 battle against Hulk, who may not even be able to fight the correct team int he first place.
3) Captain America
Although being strong and agile by human standards, Captain America does not have any 'superpowers' himself, and is therefore in the same boat as Black Widow and Hawkeye in that any 1v1 match-ups against someone with actual superpowers would be pretty one-sided against him... He has a leadership role for the Avengers and not much else, meaning a match-up against any of the Incredibles or Frozone would be a very uphill battle for Captain America, and one he probably would not win most of the time
Now we are getting to the Avengers who actually have Superpowers and can put up a fight. Thor can fly with the use of his hammer, which only he can wield, summon lightning, and fire it upon people after a charging period, and he also has considerable strength himself. Violet though can generate forcefields and turn invisible, making herself impossible to target, Dash could use his speed to evade any attacks from Thor, but most interesting would be a match-up between Thor and Mr. Incredible... In the Avengers, Thor fought against Hulk on the Helicarrier that proved to be an inconclusive fight. (See video)
If Thor could not beat someone with mega-strength who barely had control over his powers, then it can be argued that he would be unable to beat someone with super strength who DOES have control over their powers, such as Mr. Incredible. This means Thor would only be able to beat Frozone or Helen Parr aka Elastigirl
5) Iron Man
Iron Man would probably have the ability to see an invisible Violet using some sort of advanced technology and track an evading Dash. Whether or not Iron Man would have any weapons that actually pierce a Violet forcefield or actually hit Dash on the other hand is doubtful, since missiles themselves have their limits. Iron Man's suit blasts from his hands, feet, and chest meanwhile can only be wielded at very close range to his target, allowing targeted Incredibles to fight back against him. Furthermore, Iron Man could not beat Hulk in Age of Ultron without massively leveling up his suit of armor, and since Hulk and Mr Incredible are of comparable strength, Iron Man may not be able to beat Mr Incredible or Jack Jack at all for that reason.
lol101 forfeited this round.
Con has forfeited round 2. Its a bold strategy lets see if it pays off for him
In round 1 I highlighted the weaknesses of each individual Avenger in a matchup against the Incredibles. Now I will highlight the strengths of the individual Incredibles and how they match up against the Avengers
1) Bob Parr/Mr Incredible
Basically the Hulk if he had more control over his rage, The Hulk is an Avenger who no other avenger has successfully managed to defeat. Bob Parr would therefore be able to take on just about any Avenger, including the hulk himself, since the key difference between him and Mr Incredible is that Mr Incredible has control over his actions, and does not get in fights with his own team like the Hulk frequently does. This makes Mr Incredible a very difficult opponent to face, let alone beat. Just about every Avenger would have great difficulty fighting Mr Incredible, because even Thor couldnt soundly beat the Hulk, and Mr Incredible can weild his strength with far more control than the Hulk can.
2) Helen Parr/Elastigirl
Known for being extremely flexible, Helen Parr would probably not be able to defeat Thor or the Hulk, but her ability to contort her body would be more than enough for her to triumph over Black Widow, Hawkeye, or even Captain America in a close quarters fight, since she could literally wrap her body around them and suffocate them into submission.
3) Dash Parr
Dash has super speed, which would make him just about impossible for any avenger to even target him let alone land a punch on Dash. Although he cant do much damage himself, Dash could easily whip back and forth between individual fights and help out his fellow Incredibles in their matchups against the Avengers, since no on in the Avengers has any means to actually stop Dash from doing so. Dash's speed does make him quite lethal though against non-superhero opponents, meaning that Captain America, Black Widow, and Hawkeye could be in loads of trouble if Dash decides to hit and run, which he will likely do, a LOT.
4) Violet Parr
Violet like Dash cant do much damage herself, but her ability to turn invisible and generate forcefields makes her impossible to hit. She is the ultimate defensive player, and any attempted attack by an Avenger, no matter how sudden, could easily just be negated with a quick forcefield that Violet can make. She also has the ability to generate forcefields around herself and other people nearby. Her invisibility though makes her a great stealth superhero, meaning she could easily get behind someone and either knock them down or hit them without the even seeing it coming.
5) Jack Jack Parr
This is 10 years from now, meaning Jack Jack will be at least 10. Jack jack has a multitude of powers such as his own ability to 'go hulk', turn into heavy solid steel, teleport, turn himself into a human torch, and even shoot lasers from his eyes. Whether he would have mastery over all of his powers is a question that is unresolved. But with so many superpowers to begin with, Jack Jack would be an incredible force to reckon with no matter which Avenger is pitted up against him.
Frozone is perhaps the weakest member of this team. He can create ice and snow at will, but Hawkeye's markmanship would make it hard for Frozone to try to eliminate Hawkeye before he could even get close to him. The same can be said of Black Widow to a degree since she is also a firearms enthusiast, and Frozone would not do well against Thor or Iron Man... However, Captain America uses his shield over any sort of firearm, which makes the playing field pretty even between Captain America and Frozone in terms of fighting.... But why would Frozone have the edge over Captain America in a 1v1 fight? Captain America was sent into the future from WWII by getting frozen in the first place, and Frozone could feasibly just ice him over again :P
lol101 forfeited this round.
lol101 forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Lexus 1 year ago
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