The Instigator
solo
Pro (for)
Losing
16 Points
The Contender
maxh
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

The Independent Study Credit (ISC) promotes unfairness.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/5/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,136 times Debate No: 1383
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (10)
Votes (9)

 

solo

Pro

ISCs should not be acceptable as a class credit by high schools or colleges. ISC programs promote laziness, which cheats the student of the thorough education that her/his peers receive at a proper school in a proper classroom. It encourages youths to take short-cuts, instead of going through the formal and widely accepted method of learning. By allowing ISC programs to exist, kids that aren't eligible for ISC are cheated also because they have the burden of learning their subjects thoroughly. They are held accountable for the knowledge they've assimilated with greater scrutiny, whereas the ISC student does not have the same expectations placed upon him/her. ISCs promote unfairness on both sides.
maxh

Con

(ISC programs promote laziness)
If by "laziness" requesting permission to take an ISC class, making a case for it, and studying on their own enough to prove competency in the subject.

(By allowing ISC programs to exist, kids that aren't eligible for ISC are cheated also because they have the burden of learning their subjects thoroughly.)
What? A student who actually bothers to take ISC options will also learn the subject thoroughly. Possibly more thoroughly than the students who stay in regular classes, who likely will learn only enough for exams.

Although not all classes need be offered as ISC options to all students. But some students learn using different methods than others, and ISC could allow them to learn in a way that works best for them. ISC would also allow for students to take limited-interest classes that not enough other students are interested in to have a dedicated class.
Debate Round No. 1
solo

Pro

<>

"Possible more thoroughly", but not likely. It is unfair to allow ISCs because the students that actually do learn more thoroughly IN the class represent all the students, including the ISC "students" who have a questionable grasp of the subjects they've studied. You present ISC as if it's a thoroughly proven application. It's not.

<>

Exactly, which is where I base my argument. It is not fair.

<>

There are classes that specialize for a variety of ways to learn. ISC just allows them the unfair advantage of not clearly realizing their lessons, but learning just enough to attain the credits.

<>

If this is so, then pursue the course on your own. People do it all the time, everyday single day. But to allow some with a questionable knowledge receive credit for their effort (or lack thereof) is clearly unfair.

If everyone cannot participate, as everyone can participate in the public school system, then it is not fair.

Thank you.
maxh

Con

The fact remains that a student who takes the time to decide an ISC course to take and request it is more likely to be interested in the course, and as such will actually learn the material of the course. This isn't unfair. It simply removes the "luck" element from class interest.

Your claim is that students in ISC classes will only learn enough for credit. But the fact is is that most students in regular classes only learn enough to pass tests and get course credit. ISC students are more likely to learn the material, as it is a class they have chosen.

If schools could offer every class that students wanted to take, than ISC would have no use. But because schools cannot offer classes on (for example) Kyrgyz, but do require foreign language courses. Most schools offer classes in Spanish, French, and Latin. Some people have learned these languages, or at least one or two of them. Schools often require up to three foreign language courses. Re-taking classes is not the ideal way to spend time in school.

Your recommendation is to take the course for no credit. But shouldn't students who have learned something needed to graduate qualify for credit.

Again, I'm not saying we should just fire all the teachers and send students to the library to learn everything they need. But for students willing to take the time to learn something that the school cannot have a class for, ISC is a perfect option.
Debate Round No. 2
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
I don't think you understand the nature of this site. And I don't think you read my post in the comments below from a week ago:

"I'm not really having a go at you, as I would've done the same thing too, if I were you. I don't support my argument in essence, but think it was an okay argument. I guess time will tell."

I'm not against ISC. I just took up the Pro for the sake of debate. Thanks for your comments.
Posted by langman26 9 years ago
langman26
right, let's not promote individuality in school/classes. that's exactly what college isn't about. Don't be arrogant, ISC's are a way for more advance students to excel. face the facts, different people have different levels of learning and this is just one of those examples.
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
I'll just ignore you, as I'm pretty sure you can't be addressing me, langman26.
Posted by langman26 9 years ago
langman26
did you fail an ISC and now have a bitterness agaisnt them?hmmmmmmmmm
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
I'm not really having a go at you, as I would've done the same thing too, if I were you. I don't support my argument in essence, but think it was an okay argument. I guess time will tell.
Posted by l2jperry 9 years ago
l2jperry
It's not unfair, and it's not necessarily an advantage. At my school, any one who is doing what they are supposed to are allowed to take and ISC. And it's not an advantage, because some kids treat as a blowoff class. It's a peronal choice, I decided to take advantage of the time to actually better my education, rather than listen to a teacher who doesn't know what they are talking about unfortunately.
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
So you appreciate the unfair advantage it has afforded you then?
Posted by l2jperry 9 years ago
l2jperry
You couldn't be more wrong, i'm in Highschool and in an ISC. And I can tell you that I have learned more in this time, than I have in anyother public highschool class.
Posted by Raisor 9 years ago
Raisor
I dont know about ISC's in highschool, but ISC's in college are definitely justified.
Posted by solo 9 years ago
solo
I'm not sure if this is how you wanted it presented. If I got it all wrong, reject it and tell me how you want to do it. Good luck!
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by EinShtoin 7 years ago
EinShtoin
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by solo 9 years ago
solo
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by cLoser 9 years ago
cLoser
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Grandma 9 years ago
Grandma
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by hark 9 years ago
hark
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by langman26 9 years ago
langman26
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by sheepgotoheaven 9 years ago
sheepgotoheaven
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by DoubtingThomas 9 years ago
DoubtingThomas
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by maxh 9 years ago
maxh
solomaxhTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03