The Instigator
mightbenihilism
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
Man_Of_Few_Words
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Irish cannot go to the heaven

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
mightbenihilism
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/20/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 591 times Debate No: 63553
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

mightbenihilism

Pro

According to my genealology, I am mostly Irish. There's a little English, a little German, a little Norwegian, and way too much French in there, but the Irish wins out by a slight margin.

Now my question is, if I am 5/8ths Irish, does that mean 5/8ths of me is prohibited from going to heaven? Because I know Irish do not go to heaven, but I wonder about people who are not entirely Irish? I mean, I worry that if only the French, German, Norwegian and English part of my soul go to heaven, then I will be only 3/8ths of a soul, and will probably lack hands, legs, etc. It worries me deeply. I do not want to go to heaven as a mutant.

I believe strongly, however, that the Irish part cannot go to heaven. Therefore, if I live a good life, I will only be 3/8ths of a soul --- or, I will be disbarred from heaven entirely.

The burden of proof is upon the Con to show that a little bit of Irish can still get into heaven, provided they do not act, think or speak in a stereo-typically Irish way. They can then become "honorary whatevers, just not Irish", and have a place in heaven.

I looking forward to defeating you.
Man_Of_Few_Words

Con

mightbenihilism I will accept your weak Religious debate and will also argue from my religious standpoint because in the comments you said and I quote "Any religious affiliation will do."

That being said I will begin

We can't prove that Jews don't go to heaven because We can't prove The existence of Heaven its self.
If you have any ways to disagree with what I just said I would love to hear them
Debate Round No. 1
mightbenihilism

Pro

Thank you, Con, for accepting this most important debate.

The Con writes that we cannot know if Jews go to heaven, because we do not know if heaven exists. Personally, I believe all Jews go to heaven. But the burden of poof rests with me to explain why.

We do not have scientific evidence for heaven, but we do have a plethora of anecdotal evidence. It is not conclusive, but, I would argue, it is persuasive.

Now, one might argue that these experiences are symptomatic of the dying brain --- yet, such does not explain the ability of NDE experiences to have knowledge of things going on around them (from an out-of-body-perspective) on the hospital bed when brain function is quite minimal. A good resource on such is found here:

http://www.near-death.com...

Jews go to heaven because, by and large, Jews are decent, hard-working, well-educated, personally frugal and socially generous people. Often I wish I was Jewish but, alas, I am not.

Having said that, if there is a heaven, and if Jews are quite likely to go there, for that very reason we can be certain that the Irish will not make it. I, for instance, am predominantly Irish, and I barely have a high-school education, have worked menial, dead-end jobs my whole life, have been a drunkard, a smoke, a law-breaker, promiscuous, rarely cleaning my car out, etc. as well as having general bad manners. I have almost never given to charity or helped anyone out, and the few times I was helpful it was solely for selfish reasons. All of this, by definition, would make my future in heaven quite unlikely --- and, even if I did make it to heaven, it is clear that my Irishness could not enter. I would submit to you that all faiths agree that these characteristics of my Irishiosity are such things that prevent future heavenly rewards.

Having said that, I am now extremely depressed and need to play Mario Kart on Wii in order to forget my awful, tragic existence. The horror. . .
Man_Of_Few_Words

Con

mightbenihilism I am honesty having a very good time debating with someone as intelligent and logical as you so for that I would like to thank you.Now for my rebuttal/clarification/new points

1. First of all If in fact heaven does exist, there seems that there would be 2 possibilities for how you would get in
1. god looks at every person and what they have done in their life and makes a decision based on his opinion or 2. god makes a sort of program or set of rules or law if you want to call it that decides if you get into heaven (think of it as a test you are scored on your answers and either pass or fail) However it is very likely that god would look only at your ethnicity and choose if you get in because of it. Your point was that you are Irish you are for lack of a better definition a "bad person" and that therefore Irish do not go to heaven, but you have one major problem. I would agree that in your case you may not go to heaven, but you are not a model of all Irish and since we are in a debate that includes facts we can assume that there are Irish people out there that do amazing things and are amazing people. Therefore I highly doubt that someone as fair as god would not let any Irish into heaven just because of stereotypes. Furthermore I would argue that you are not sure if all of your bad traits came from your Irish dependence and therefore the Irish part of you would in fact make it into heaven but another part of you would not.
2. Next I would like to point out that your argument about heaven is indeed quite persuasive however the science against heaven Is much more conclusive and therefore it should not matter that heaven could exist but that science has shown us that theoretically heaven should not exist.
Thanks again for a fun debate and I look forward to your next argument
Debate Round No. 2
mightbenihilism

Pro

The Con writes, "mightbenihilism I am honesty having a very good time debating with someone as intelligent and logical as you so for that I would like to thank you."
I reply, the feeling is mutual.

The Con says, "it is very likely that god would look only at your ethnicity and choose if you get in because of it"
I reply, I agree. This is my whole point. God, in his sovereignty, has proven time and time again he dislikes the Irish and, as such, he dislikes 5/8ths of me.

The Con tells us, "I would agree that in your case you may not go to heaven"
I reply, so we are agreeing far more than disagreeing. This sounds like I might have to win this one, then.

The Con etches these words in stone, "but you are not a model of all Irish and since we are in a debate that includes facts we can assume that there are Irish people out there that do amazing things and are amazing people. Therefore I highly doubt that someone as fair as god would not let any Irish into heaven just because of stereotypes."
I reply, the only amazing Irish person to ever exist is Bono. And he is half Cherokee. So, I think it is obvious that the Cherokee portion of Bono's lineage is what makes him awesome, in spite of his Irishness. Nonetheless, only the Cherokee portion of him will be translated into heaven, for as we both know, stereo-types are often absolutely true. I am proof positive of this, as I've lived like a totally Irish-American stereo-type --- without, however, being even remotely Catholic (we were so Irish we weren't even Catholic. We worshipped the pre-Catholic Irish Gods like Enya and Loreena McKennitt).

The Con reveals the following words from the realm of hidden splendors, "Furthermore I would argue that you are not sure if all of your bad traits came from your Irish dependence and therefore the Irish part of you would in fact make it into heaven but another part of you would not."
I reply, all my bad traits are typical of the Irish: drinking, smoking, lack of education, lack of work ethic, turning pink and peeling in the sun rather than getting a sexy tan like we know we should, being stupid on the internet, etc.

And, finally, the wrath of Con bids us to behold the words, "the science against heaven Is much more conclusive" and "science has shown us that theoretically heaven should not exist".
In fact, there is a well-known physicist names Frank Tipler who has demonstrated conclusively that heaven will and does exist in the plenipotentiarium of omnifuturity:

"Tipler argues, as do many others, that on the universal scale of time, life's conquest of the universe will proceed quite quickly. He believes that technology will continue to grow exponentially throughout the future, constantly accelerating relative to existing technology. Even without ways to subvert the speed of light, colonization of most of the known universe might take only a few billion years. Intelligent beings, according to Tipler, will send millions of small Von Neumann probes into the galaxy at near-light speeds to find suitable star systems for settlement. Once a suitable site has been located, these probes will generate self-replicating machines which will rapidly construct a habitable settlement and seed it with human and other life synthesized from cells carried by the probe. More probes would be built and sent further into the galaxy. Meanwhile, of course, technology will continue to become increasingly sophisticated, and the process will gather momentum over the millennia. Ultimately life will engulf and control the universe. And life will use its power to prevent the final collapse.

"Tipler's theory of eternal life boils down to this: progress will continue indefinitely, literally to infinity. Progress naturally includes computing power. And, by even the most conservative estimates, the amount of computing power available in 100 billion years will far surpass the number of particles in the Universe. In other words, the computers at the end of time will have the power to reproduce all possible universes down to the quantum level. Which, of course, means they can reproduce everyone and everything that has ever lived."
http://www.ctraces.com...

So, according to Frank Tipler (not an Irish guy), not only does physics prove heaven will exist, but also that Irish people will not be allowed into it because they are scurvy scalawags.

I don't think it is too soon to declare myself victorious at this point. It would be very honorable if you conceded, and no one would think less of you. In fact, it would be very honorable for you to acknowledge the greatness of my arguments here, and, therefore, to show that you are a person of integrity. I know you are, of course, but a demonstration like this would help others see it too, who may not be as perceptive as I am.

Mightbenihilism, signing off. . .
Man_Of_Few_Words

Con

Man_Of_Few_Words forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by mightbenihilism 2 years ago
mightbenihilism
You'll win plenty of other debates. These things happen.
Posted by Man_Of_Few_Words 2 years ago
Man_Of_Few_Words
but now i'm going to lose because of forfeiting
not because of who did better
Posted by mightbenihilism 2 years ago
mightbenihilism
It's all good, man of few words. :)
Posted by Man_Of_Few_Words 2 years ago
Man_Of_Few_Words
shoot I missed the last round ):
Posted by whitesworstnightmare 2 years ago
whitesworstnightmare
l don't believe that everyone goes to heaven.Bible quote give to ceiza what belongs to ceiza.lf you sell your soul to the devil. Dont expect him to give it back?This dude will deceive you!
Posted by mightbenihilism 2 years ago
mightbenihilism
Any religious affiliation will do.
Posted by Preston 2 years ago
Preston
Please state what religious affiliation we should be using, as a mormon i dont believe in hell, everyone goes to heaven.
Posted by VelCrow 2 years ago
VelCrow
I will open a pub in Ireland, call it Heaven. Proven Irish people can enter heaven. Case close.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by carriead20 2 years ago
carriead20
mightbenihilismMan_Of_Few_WordsTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: FF and Pro made better arguments.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
mightbenihilismMan_Of_Few_WordsTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture