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The Islamic God exists.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/7/2016 Category: Science
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 322 times Debate No: 93444
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
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Feel free to use both scientific and religious sources.


"What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that "this is a pen", for the opposite person to say, "it is not a pen", he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say "there is no God", he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.

Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.
Debate Round No. 1



I. Definition of God
II. Evolutionary psychology and superstition
III. Dragons
IV. Occam's razor
V. Summary
VI. Sources

I. Definition of God

Definition of God via dictionary "1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions." [1]

The above definition seems to match what most people in my area see as God. There are many differences between God and an ordinary object. One is that you can pick up a pen, see a pen, manufacture a pen, show your pen to your friends and so forth. There is copious amounts of evidence that a pen exists. The same goes for many animals. Yet, with God the evidence if any is much less than that of mundane objects.

II. Evolutionary psychology and superstition

Many people in good faith pronounce that God must exist because so many people believe in God. From the Egyptian religions, Greek, Roman, Norse, Primitive tribes, Middle Eastern, and Far eastern religions. That being said religion is pan-human. Meaning every human has some sort of concept of religion.

Yet, there are many other ideas like ghosts, spirits, dragons, etc. In a survival of the fittest environment via Darwin's theory of evolution, ghosts make sense. Yes, that's right the idea of humans fearing spirits, ghosts, and dragons helped humans survive and evolve. Perhaps the best way to explain religion is via dragons.

III. Dragons

Perhaps the most universally accepted or pan-human symbol is that of the dragon. I just got several chills just typing these words. From a Darwin's theory of evolution point of view, why would this be to our advantage? Why would it be logical to believe in dragons? In a scientific film Quest for Dragons [2] the answers are unearthed. To summarize why belief in dragons is logical from a Darwinism point of view dragons have fangs like a cat, claws like a bird of prey, and a neck like a snake. The ultimate predator.

Yet, when we look for fossil evidence we find only dinosaurs. Yet, no known fossils of dinosaurs met the criteria of a dragon. Therefore, dragons must be part of our psychology, like hobgoblins, ghosts, spirits, and so forth. Now why would it be to our evolutionary advantage to fear dragons? Well looks at the fangs first, large cats are a real threat to humans and other great apes. Claws like a bird of prey, must be something passed on from before humans evolved into apes. A bird of prey certainty is a threat to rodents.

Finally, the neck of a snake. Poisonous snakes can harm humans quite easily and even kill humans in rare instances.
Therefore, it is logical and to our evolutionary advantage to believe in dragons. Despite the fact that no fossil evidence of dragons has been found.

As for ghosts and spirits, building upon that is it our advantage to be superstitious, a rustle in the grass may be that of a predator. Spirits and ghosts symbolize unseen predators. "You look like you've just seen a ghost!" Is often said when somebody looks frightened. There is a very good and logical explanation why humans are afraid of ghosts.

Finally, often God is imagined as a spirit of some kind. No corporeal form. Therefore, a belief in God is logical and to our advantage from an evolutionary point of view.

IV. Occam's razor

Occam's razor states that the simplest solution is the best. "The simplest explanation is usually the right one. " [3] Now which is the simplest solution? That the Islamic God exists, created the universe, and performed all the deeds in Islamic religious doctrine versus the Multiverse Theory, the Big Bang Theory, the Primordial soup Theories, and Darwin's theory of Evolution.

At first, a person may guess that God is simpler. Yet, often with religious history the question if often begged "how did God come into existence?" There will be many legends about how religious figures A, B, C, and D performed all these miracles. With scant attention to how or who created God.

Yet, by the very nature of creation, the creator must be more complex than the creation. Therefore, God must be more complex than creation, the universe. Considering how complex the universe is, the furthest galaxy over 13 billion light years away, the sheer mass of the sun, black holes, and the volume of hyper red giants, its safe to assume that God must be extremely complex.

Which again, gets back to how was God created? Since the creator must be more complicated than the creation, whoever or however God was created must be even more complicated. Which then leads the question how was that created, creating a larger problem to infinity. Since God must then be infinitely complicated Occam razor chooses the scientific theories over God.

V. Summary

In summary belief in God is logical and to our advantage from an evolutionary point of view. Just as belief in dragons and unseen predators is. Nevertheless using Occam's Razor we perceive that God must be more complex than the universe, since the creator must be more complex than the creation. Which then begs the question, who created God, which only complicates the problem infinitely, since then "who created the creator" infinitely.

Thank your for your time and energy reading this debate. I wish my opponent good luck.

VI. Sources


In mathematics there is a theory known as "Theory of Probability". If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12"%.

A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.

Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur"an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur"an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.

At the time when the Qur"an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur"an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.

The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur"an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.

Further, the Qur"an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur"an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

The Qur"an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur"an is Divine.
Debate Round No. 2


Round 3 Outline

I. Intro
II. Other religions
III. Incorrect predictions
IV. Jaded statistics on opponent's part
V. Summary
VI. Links


I must admit, my opponent took a creative route to make her argument. Using probability to show that many of the predictions within the Islamic religious book are known to be true. Yet, many other religions have done exactly the same.

II. Other religions

There are at least 729 other religions. "There are more than 730 established Religions in the world which are broken out into more the 3200 different sects." [4]

Now just at there are approximately seven billion people on the Earth now, there were many religions who perished long ago. Meaning the total number of religions that ever existed as some point would be much higher. Since early hominids have existed for over one million years, that's a lot of time to make educated guesses.

Let's hazard a guess that there were about ten times the amount of religions created ever as that exist in the world today. That would mean 7,200 attempts. Not only that but each religion could learn from the previous one. To sum up, religious doctrines are made up of hypothesis, guesses, and conjuncture. You can see this clearly in other religious doctrines as prophets fail to show up when predicted and events happen differently that foretold.

Let's say one group of religions guessed the Earth was flat and another that the Earth was round. Just like survival of the fittest, the groups who guessed flat would be mocked and people would flock to the religious talking about a round Earth. Not to mention that now you have several religions that all are correct in their predictions thus far.

III. Incorrect predictions

Surely, there must be some incorrect predictions. Even if there are none, all it means is the religious leaders were very good at protecting themselves. If you make no claims, you can't be proven wrong. Think of an author trying to make as much money as possible by making predictions about the future. How would he/she do it? How much risk would he/she take? The more far fetched predictions would generate more attention and thus revenue when proven almost certainty true.

IV. Jaded statistics on opponent's part

More importantly, some of the guesses may have been highly thought out. Think of someone who stares at the moon a lot. They would see the eclipse. People with very good eye sight would be able to see more detail of the moon. Even in those times it would be possible to make a very good guess that the moon reflects light. As for the Earth being flat, that's more of a 50/50% chance. I don't think too many people really thought the Earth was triangular in shape. I would also like proof that the holy book actually used the word sphere. Since sphere is a 3-d object as opposed to a 2-d circle.

"Further, the Qur"an also mentions every living thing is made of water. " Muslimdebater

You could also make the argument that every living thing is made of heat. I would think ancient people would think more in terms of air, fire, water, and Earth. If you twist the meaning a little, every living thing is made up of all four, air, fire, water, and Earth. So, that seems like a 100% chance prediction, since all four were right.

V. Summary

Relying upon predicitions seems a poor choice to sort out which religion is correct. "Though Muslims often argue for the divine origin of the Qur’an on grounds that “no error, alteration, or variation” has touched its copies since its inception, such a view does not accurately represent the facts. " [5]

Think about what this is stating, make several different copies with different predictions each and whenever a prediction turns out incorrect keep the correct prediction copies, and destroy the copies with incorrect predictions. Finally and maybe one of the most importance, Islam is one the youngest religions in existence, starting in 700 AD "The origins of Islam are attributed to Muhammad's personal quest to share God's words to others in 7th Century AD. " [6]

Meaning the creators of the religion had more advanced technology to make predictions and more time to analyze the mistakes of previous religions. In other words, of course the Islamic holy books would be more accurate than other religious texts, because the creators came to the game later.

Even now criminals are thinking of more and and more advanced schemes. The more I think of it 700 AD was really late in the game for religions. There is so many ways that the writers could have access to evidence that the world was spherical in shape and the moon reflected and so forth. There may not be the sheer volume of evidence that the Earth was round in 700 AD as today, but surely there was evidence.

In fact "Around 350 BC, the great Aristotle declared that the Earth was a sphere" [7]. Poor science, religion moving in on science's turf since at least 700 AD. Now only that but Aristotle discovered the part about the moon reflecting light.

"For example when Aristotle (384-322 B.C.) discussed the shape of the earth. One of his arguments to prove the earth's sphericity was the fact that during a lunar eclipse, as the moon enters or emerges from the earth's shadow, the shape of the shadow seen on the moon is always round. Only a spherical object always produces a round shadow. If the earth were a disk, for example, there would be some occasions when the sunlight would be striking the disk edge on, and the shadow on the moon would be a line. " [8]

As I see it ordinary people created the Koran and plagiarized Aristotle. This sends a chills down my spine and makes me angry. Its about time scientist say to the religious people "you kids get off my lawn!" Thank you for the debate, you are a most clever adversary.

VI. Links





The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form.
Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man. In the final book of divine revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah states the following:

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

"Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)

Nowhere in the Bible will you find Allah saying to Prophet Moses' people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity. In fact, Christ was not even his name, nor was it Jesus! The name "Christ" comes from the Greek word Christos which means the annointed. That is, Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew title "Messiah". The name "Jesus" on the other hand, is a latinized version of the Hebrew name Esau.
For simplicity's sake, I will however continue to refer to Prophet Esau (PBUH) as Jesus. As for his religion, it was what he called his followers to. Like the prophets before him, he called the people to surrender their will to the will of Allah; (which is Islam) and he warned them to stay away from the false gods of human imagination.
According to the New Testament, he taught his followers to pray as follows: "Yours will be done on earth as it is in Heaven".


Since the total submission of one's will to Allah represents the essence of worship, the basic message of Allah's divine religion, Islam is the worship of Allah alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than Allah.Since everything other than Allah, the Creator of all things, is Allah's creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator. He is the only one deserving man's worship as it is only by His will that prayers are answered. If man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it was not the tree which answered his prayers but Allah who allowed the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, "That is obvious," however, to tree-worshippers it might not be. Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna, to Saint Christopher, or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad, are not answered by them but are answered by Allah. Jesus did nottell his followers to worship him but to worship Allah. As the Qur'aan states:

"And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary Did you say to men, Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah He will say-"Glory to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')" (Soorah Al-Maa'idah- 5:116)

Nor did he worship himself when he worshipped but rather he worshipped Allah. This basic principle is enshrined in the opening chapter of the Qur'aan, known as Soorah Al-Faatihah, verse 4:

"You alone do we worship and from you alone do we seek help".
Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah also said:

"And your Lord says:"Call on Me and I will answer your(prayer)."(Soorsh Mu'min 40:60)

it is worth noting that the basic message of Islam is that Allah and His creation are distinctly different entities. Neither is Allah His creation or a part of it, nor is His creation Him or a part of Him.
This might seem obvious, but, man's worship of creation instead of the Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of Allah is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some aspects of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of creation though such worship maybecalled the worship of Allah through his creation. How ever, the message of Islam as brought by the prophets of Allah is to worship only Allah and to avoid the worship of his creation either directly or indirectly. In the Our'aan Allah clearlystates:

"For We assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet,(with the command) worship meand avoid false gods " (Soorsh Al-Nahl 16:36)

When the idol worshipper is questioned as to why he or she bows down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshipping the stone image, but Allah who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for Allah's essence and is not in itself Allah! One who has accepted the concept of the presence of God's being within His creation in any way will be obliged to accept this argument of idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never concede to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized. Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that Allah is present in man. They merely had to assert that although Allah according to their false beliefs, is in all of us, He is more present in them than in the rest of us. Hence, they claim, we should submit our will to them and worship them as they are either God in person or God concentrated within the person.
Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their passing have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God's presence in man. One who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstances. God's religion in essence is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:
"Laa Elaaha lllallaah" (There is no god but Allah)
Its repetition automatically brings one within the fold of Islam and sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise.
Thus, the final Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Any one who says: There is no god but Allah and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise".(Reported by Abu Dharr and collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).

It consists in the submission to Allah as one God, yielding to Him by obeying His commandments, and the denial of polytheism and polytheists.



The Islamic God does indeed exist. Islam might not be the religion with the most followers but it is the religion that is growing most rapidly than any other. Moreover it was a nice debate with my opponent, unlike others he wasn't insultive and was kind enough to have some dignity. Rest on the voters. Thanks
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by whiteflame 3 months ago
>Reported vote: KeyserSoze115// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Con had the better arguments.

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD, just a restatement of the decision.
Posted by Muslimdebater 3 months ago
This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.

And when you fight, you strive to kill the enemy during the fight.
However, even during the war, Islam has the highest moral law of war. You don't kill children, women or any one who is not fighting with you. See the page on Human Rights in Islam.
You also don't fight, if the enemy wants a peace treaty:
008.061 But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards
peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things).
God Almighty also says in Chapter 60:
060.008 God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith
nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God
loves those who are just.

060.009 God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith,
and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from
turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these
circumstances), that do wrong.

For the ignorant, misquotation is a habit that misbelievrrs enjoy.
Posted by Stupidape 3 months ago
Have you read your own religious doctrine?

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

The Quran is a quintessential example of merciless. Do not spread such falsehoods as seen below, and expect them to go uncontested.

Muslimdebater "If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam."
Posted by Muslimdebater 3 months ago
You are also unknown to me does that mean you are unreal?
Posted by Muslimdebater 3 months ago
Your stupid definations doesn't matter. Keep them in your own dictionary.
Posted by vi_spex 3 months ago
unknown=allah=not real
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