The Instigator
UtherPenguin
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
JonSnuu
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Islamic State does not properly follow Islam.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/29/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 725 times Debate No: 76900
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (12)
Votes (0)

 

UtherPenguin

Pro

Debate impossible to accept. Comment or Pm me if you are interested in debating.

Rules:
-BOP is on Pro.
- Failure by either side to abide by the format or terms will result in a lose of conduct during the voting period.
-If Con finds the terms to be inaccurate or unreasonable then he/or she may alter the terms but only with a sound argument as to why.
-No Semantics, or Trolling.
-Be civil.

Terms:
Islamic State: (Alternativly spelt ISIS, ISIL or DAE'SH): A Salafi jihadist militant group and self-proclaimed Islamic state (caliphate) that as of March 2015 had control over territory occupied by 10 million people[

Follow: Act in accordance to instruction.

Since ISIS is a Sunni group, we will be debating from the Sunni interpretation of Islam.

Format:
Round 1: Acceptance only
Round 2: Opening Arguments
Round 3: Rebuttals
Round 4: Closing arguments
JonSnuu

Con

I accept your challenge. I just recently discovered this forum so please excuse me if I make some mistakes.
Since Round 1 is acceptance only I will leave it at that.

My contention will be centered around 'No True Scotsman fallacy' and how violence is prescribed in almost every organized religion. I am a Sunni Muslim so your terms are agreeable.
Debate Round No. 1
UtherPenguin

Pro

UtherPenguin forfeited this round.
JonSnuu

Con

Well that's that
Debate Round No. 2
UtherPenguin

Pro

Unfortunately due to outside factors I will have to concede this debate. I would like to do a rematch of this debate if Con is interested. Hence, Con wins this debate by default.
JonSnuu

Con

JonSnuu forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
UtherPenguin

Pro

A rematch debate will be made sometime later in the future.
JonSnuu

Con

JonSnuu forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
@JonSnuu
Apologies for the forfeit, please continue with your opening arguments, I'll compensate for my forfeit in the next round.
Posted by JonSnuu 1 year ago
JonSnuu
I am a Muslim and I would like to debate this topic against you as con (if you grant me permission). Religion in general is an accumulation of evolved memes. Religious apologists usually come up with the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy when confronted with fanatics amongst their ranks. This actually exacerbates the conflict. The solution is to accept that violence is an inherent part of human beings and hence the ideologies we embrace. Islam does prescribe violence in specific situations, it also defines errant conflict and ways to identify and resolve it. If a person calls themselves a representative of Islam it is counter productive to disown them. An open and unbiased forum with dialogue is prescribed, only via therapeutic discourse can any misgivings and afflictions be identified.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
GIDHIR
Qu'ran 2:191-3 "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Qu'ran 3:56 "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Qu'ran 4:95 "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward "
1) The Qu'ran explicitly values killing infidels as a posed to simply reading at home, not bothering anyone. While I understand the definition of terrorist may be hazy, but the killing en masse of people simply because they are not Muslims is at the very least genocide. The Qu'ran advocates using violence to either force people to convert or kill those who don't.
2) I'm stating that there is no definite religious group since every member has their own understanding of how to read into their particular text. To me, A holy book is either entirely written by god or not at all. Thus, a person who follows said book, while not moral by our standards, is moral by their religious ones. A person who does not conform to said book, while comparably more moral, would not be following that god's words.
Posted by Ragnar 1 year ago
Ragnar
@UtherPenguin,
I think I misread the title, sorry for any confusion.
Posted by AKhattak 1 year ago
AKhattak
"A Muslim extremist, while completely in the wrong, in regards to their holy book they are completely justified. A Muslim who rejects terrorism and sexism, while more moral, is not following the Qu'ran."

I think you are wrong here. Quran rejects terrorism. Islam says always take the moral path and those who leave morality and head towards extremism head towards becoming Non-Muslims. A Muslim extremist who is wrong according to the Quran are not justified they are in fact wrong. A Muslim who is moral is following the Quran which tells us to reject extremism and always be moral. Secondly your argument is a little confusing. If we accept your argument and believe both of them are not following Quran then who is? If both reject Quran then how exactly are they Muslims?
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
@Ragnar Wouldn't that be a semantic argument though?
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
GIDHIR
Personally, I don't think there is truly a proper way to practice any religion. If you have a loose interpretation of your particular holy book then why say you adhere to said dogma if you reject many teachings you deem outdated? If it is truly a divine piece then none of it is flawed. If you are a literalist or fundamentalist, then I'm sorry but your religious text is flawed. A single flaw, let alone dozens of contradictions and unethical stances, would not be included in a perfect, godly work. Following such teachings exactly as they are written would make you a very unethical person, from the included promotion of slavery, sacrifice, the killing of non believers, classism, sexism, homophobia, using force over reason, rape, genocide, genital and bodily mutilation, xenophobia, to execution and condemnation for fabricated occurrences such as witchcraft and demonic possession. To agree with any of these principles is morally reprehensible yet to deny just one states that the work it came from is untrue and not divinely inspired. In addition, there are as many perspectives and interpretations of any given text as there are people who have read it. There is no greater example than the treasure trove of examples in regards to holy books. Every literalist has a different view on how their "truth" is to be interpreted. Everyone who rejects it entirely as godly in inspiration has there own reasoning and examples for their stance. Even officially ordained priests, rabbis, muftis, clerics, etc. have differing homilies and teachings regarding what their book contains. For me, a statement of a religious stance is false due to personal interpretation and an inability to reconcile modern secular morality with that of said holy doctrine, in this case that of the Koran, or Qu'ran. A Muslim extremist, while completely in the wrong, in regards to their holy book they are completely justified. A Muslim who rejects terrorism and sexism, while more moral, is not following the Qu'ran.
Posted by AKhattak 1 year ago
AKhattak
For it to properly follow Islam Con has to show that its rules fall in accordance with Islamic rule and they refrain from that which is forbidden in Islam. Maybe not 100% but at least more than 70%.
Posted by Ragnar 1 year ago
Ragnar
Interesting as this offers two separate paths for con to win. Either by showing ISIS follows 50 or less of Islam, or that they follow it properly to it's entirety (a much harder claim, as most religions have contradictions).
Posted by shalal12 1 year ago
shalal12
Yes they practice their fabricated Islam. And they are really successful in that work. Just look how many Europeans joined them. girls go there for Jihad al-nikah and men go there to finde heaven by Shahadat.
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