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The Issue of the Trinity

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/29/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 447 times Debate No: 64150
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
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The Bible shows that God is not a trinity in many Scriptures. For example, John 1:1 has to be changed in most Bibles to say that "the word was God" instead of giving the true meaning of the Greek text. Also, 1 John 5:7 has been changed to show that the trinity is true, but the most authoritative texts do not include anything relating to the trinity. This means that John 1:1 is an example of something being taken away from the text, and that 1 John 5:7 is an example of someone adding to the text, as there is no proof in the Bible that God is a trinity, so trinitarians had to add to and take away from the true text of the Bible in order to say the things that they do about the trinity. Basically translators of most translations fool people into thinking that there is a trinity when no such evidence exists in the Greek texts.


I accept.

God is a Trinity.

Son ~ the uniformed perfect of God's preference in the identification of his Infinite being.
Father ~ Imperceivable limit of Gods Glory, unassociable with his Personality because of it's extensive awesomeness and imperceivable aspect.
Spirit ~ The union of Peoples to the Infinite Father through Christ Jesus.

For Christ Jesus lives in us, only through Faith do we know him, and only through him do we attain God.

Thus God is one and only one, yet he is beautifully and truthfully the Trinity.
Debate Round No. 1


In all of your argument, you never once used a Scripture to prove that what you are saying is Biblical. Please give me a Scripture from the Bible as Christianity is supposed to be based on the Bible.

Also, when Jesus was baptized, God's voice came from the heavens saying that Jesus is God's son the beloved, the one that God had approved. (Matthew 3:16)

Something else, the Scriptures clearly state that Jesus is the only begotten son, that no man has ever seen God, and that Jesus explained God.

"So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. For we all received from his fullness, even undeserved kindness upon undeserved kindness. Because the Law was given through Moses, the undeserved kindness and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father's side is the one who has explained Him."


Scriptures are not a mandatory component to faith.

Abraham had no Bible to follow and yet his relationship with God was as noteworthy as any others before or after him. He preserved the Book of Genesis when the nation of his ancestors allowed it to be destroyed and forgotten. Was his relationship with God dampened by his lack of the Jewish history and Prophets who spoke of the God he worshiped and loved.

Truly he worshiped God through Christ Jesus, because only through Christ Jesus can one pray to God; as a letterbox inscribed with the address of God, Your prayer in Jesus name reaches his father.

As Krishna is Allah, oh Jehova, our God, hindu's pray to him and him alone in such a manner, "Oh Krishna, you who are all knowing, all powerful, all loving, You are truly to glorious in your immaculate for for me to look upon with certainty and pray with resolve and satisfaction, for you are too great oh mighty Krishna.. but I know you bring to me good things and from me the bad things you keep at bay. Truly oh Lord Krishna you are Geneush, god of Luck. In this manner I your loyal servant and devotee worship you oh Geneush, personality of Krishna, the One God, who establishes the establishable, and resides in the unimplorable."

In this manner we also pray to Krishna, who is God. For we cannot call upon God without acknowledging in our Hearst the truths of his personality.

It is vanity and sin to claim God cannot be found or understood but for the words within the Bible. Jesus Christ is the Word of God, the Bible is not of heaven, nor was it written by those therein as many claim the Quran has been. Assuridly it is vanity to turn the faithless to a book which has no power to convert them, when their eyes should first be turned to reason and logic. And then so, if the book cannot convert a pagan or turn a sinner from his lust, then what have you need of the book for at all?

Assuredly it is truth, but listen carefully,

You cannot know the Father, as Chaos was once his given name in Greece, he is imperceivable. His infinite potential and glory, and timeless nature is limited to the fathomable aspect of understanding these sentences and the world which has been revealed to you thus far. This God, this Father, this bearer of all Might and Glory is the Father. And so, as Jesus said, "do not Worship me. Worship my Father who is all powerful and all knowing", we Know that the Father is.

Because Jesus is the Word of God, He comes from his father, is the manifestation of his fathers will, but is not the Glorious might of his father which sends him. The son thus factually is. For God is perceived as Jesus: the accumulation of the desired image of his personality perfected; then we can see thus, that the father and son are one, and yet two entirely separate entities. In this way, only through The Image God has chosen fro himself can one truly acknowledge God for who he truly is, and thus in only this manner can we approach him, lest we say God is simply not himself, and instead we should take up for ourselves another in his place simply because God the creator will hear us and adhere to our plight and our wishes even if we do not adhere to his plight and wishes to be acknowledged for who he truly is.

And lastly, Jesus says that every man you ignore, you in fact ignore him, Christ. This is because Christ live sin us. This union with Christ is the holy spirit. It is your acceptance of Christ.

Thus. We Pray to the Father, and his majesty,
and the Son in his glory
and the holy spirit in it's sanctity,
that we acknowledge all of God's body when making our prayers and departing from our alms to serve God with our bodies.

What need have we for scriptures if we have simply received Christ in our Hearts and Minds. Simply to assure our children of our sound logic and reasoning. There is no, and has been no issue here with the Trinity.
Debate Round No. 2


The very meaning of being "Christian" means to follow Jesus and be "disciples" or people who have accepted Jesus' discipline. How could we follow his discipline without his teachings? Our faith is based upon his teachings, and those teachings have been preserved in Scripture for our benefit. Thus, Scripture is a mandatory component to our worship of his and our Father. Basically, we cannot receive Christ without receiving his teachings, as he put his sweat, tears, blood and life into the ministry that he so fervently taught.


Christ's Teachings are in our hearts.
We have no need to read or hear them, we know them innately, as we discern right from wrong.
Loving what God loves and Hating what God hates, does not occur because you know what God hates and loves, but because you see the wisdom in these things without being forced too.
However it is logical to seek an understanding of the properties that might lead to God loving or Hating these things. All these emotions are innately there for those who are not corrupted by atheism. And for those who are corrupted, the book offers no relieve of enlightenment for they are blind to it's pages.
His teachings are preserved for our benefit, not because they are the most profitable means of attaining an understanding of him.

Justly; The Trinity develops no issues. God is comprehendable, beyond comprehension, and is the act of comprehending.
Debate Round No. 3


Christ's Teachings are not in our hearts to begin with, however with Bible training his teachings come to be in our hearts.
"...on the other hand, be training yourself with godly devotion as your aim." (1 Timothy 4:7)

We also need to read/hear them as the Scriptures say:
" will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!" (Romans 10:14)

Another problem with the trinity doctrine is that Jesus was dead for three days and then raised up. Do you believe that God was dead because I sure don't. Also, Jesus was raised up- do you believe that the dead can raise themselves from the dead because I sure don't. The Scriptures say that the dead aren't conscious of anything.R39;"For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all" (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Finally, you have never once given proof anything you have said, while I have given proof everything I have said. which do you think is telling the truth?


My opponent rises no contradictions or problems concerning the Trinity.

The Trinity in fact indicates that even should Christ die in the flesh, God is still omnipotent.

These questions, all ending in question marks, are as much rhetorical questions as questions of doubt.

" will they call on him if they have not put faith in him?
~ A man who does not buy a poor farmers land so that the town people do not hate him thereafter, acknowledges Gods personality, whether he accepts the truth behind his glorious mercy or not. Thus This man IS calling upon God, even though, there he puts no faith.
~ also, a child knows not that God will take his penny and make his wish come true, But his heart speaks to God and God listens.

How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard?
~ You do not have to hear politicians are corrupt to see it. Likewise who do not have to see perfection to know we have not attained it, but that we can strive for it.

How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?
~ This is difficult, because they would surely hear so much else to confound them. But a man who is wronged then knows that Wrong is indeed wrong, and they then hear God and that the ways of God are righteous. Whether they listen, because a crowd of confounding fools is hard to cope with is regardless, because the man does hear with the lack of a preacher.

How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? ~
All man, sent or not sent, preaches his heart in his actions. Helping others, speaking with social or charitable aspects, playing youthfully.

All these things one does naturally, and only when Corrupted does man fail to do them.

A corrupted man does not lay way to indicate the Holy Spirit is not a real force that lives in People creating a communion with God through Jesus.

However, a corrupt man, lays before him and behind him a path that clearly shows that he walks int he darkness and that no light goes out before him or after him. And thus he is an example of a failure. And through a failure one can see all of that personals faults without him being able to hide anything.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by amigodana 1 year ago
1 John 5:5 "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

1 John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth."

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."

Here is just one of the Witnesses to the trinity! Now remember that scripture only requires two and at the most three witnesses to establish a matter!

John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 14:7 "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."

John 14:9 "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

John 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works" sake."
Posted by Mr.Lee 2 years ago
Matthew 28:19 I forgot to include that in my previous comment. I am a firm believer that there is only one God, simply because of my knowledge of the scripture. Jesus means Jehovah Salvation. Jesus, God, and the Holy Ghost are the one and the same.
Posted by Mr.Lee 2 years ago
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1st Timothy 3:16.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME (notice it is singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Posted by austism 2 years ago
Sorry, my last comment didn't like the Greek alphabet I assume. "Theos en ho Logos" will work.
Posted by austism 2 years ago
I did some research on Con's case about John 1:1. What I found was the Greek original text said "\0;^9;P56;`2; O74;_7; P01; \3;a2;^7;_9;`2;" which directly translates to "God was the word." The only change is now John 1:1 says "the word was God." I don't see how that differs from the original meaning in Greek.
Posted by sabrin100 2 years ago
Then you can take the con side , if you can show that nothing was added to the Greek text
Posted by Rubikx 2 years ago
I'm not going to take this debate, but I would like to point out that when we discovered the dead sea scrolls we where able to compare our modern day bible with the bible from thousands of years ago. Apart from a few grammatical changes there where no differences between them.
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