The Instigator
NewLifeChristian
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
persianimmortal
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Jehovah's Witness religion is a cult

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
NewLifeChristian
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/19/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 853 times Debate No: 82826
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (3)

 

NewLifeChristian

Pro

Rules:

1) No trolling!

2) Respect your opponent during the debate

3) No spamming, etc. Have good debate etiquette

Definitions:

Cult - “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth.”

Structure:

First round is ACCEPTANCE! Second round I (pro) will present my arguments, then my opponent (con) will present their argument. After that I will rebut their original argument and my opponent (con) will rebut my original argument. Last round will be why you did better than your opponent.

persianimmortal

Con

I am not Jehovah's Witness but I have studied their beliefs extensively and I accept this debate in favor of the Con side. Good luck to you, my friend and God bless.

First, we must understand that most Christians call the JW's cult members because they have not thoroughly analyzed their claims and immediately labelled it as false simply because it is outside of mainstream Christianity. Such actions are wrong and here's why.

A. The Oxford definition of a Christian is, "a person who has received a Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and His teachings." So everyone under this category is Christian without argument. And a cult is not what you explained above but rather, a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object as the Oxford dictionary has defined.
From the Con perspective, I don't care how you direct your worship to Christ, if you believe in His teachings, and you teach the masses about the Glory of the Savior then you're qualified as a Christian. Simple. So the question becomes, is there biblical proof for the definition of a Christian and the answer is yes.
(Acts 11:26) (Acts 26:28) (1 Peter 14:16) all state the actions of a Christian, the duty of a Christian and the unity of Christians through worship. Interestingly, in Acts 2:37-39, Peter says that in order to be a Christian, one must be baptized and walk a different path of life. So unless you're replacing God's Judgment with your own, no human is to judge another human for his/her beliefs. Just keep in mind that labeling anyone anything without in depth investigation of their claims, is bound to Hellfire (Matt 5:22)...Im not saying this, the Bible did :)

B. So what is "troubling" to most Christians about their claims? Well, most Christians claim that Jesus was God while JW's refute that claim. Let's have a look:

I invite, nay I challenge anyone in the audience of this debate to find the word "Trinity" in the Bible. It does not exist. So why believe in a term that is not Biblical or Divinely Ordained? Man designed this doctrine and therefore it is man's responsibility to reinforce such heavy claims with Scripture. When someone attempts this, one of 2 conclusions is reached:

Either, Jesus is the Father, and had a monologue with Himself, appointing Himself as the Messiah through the Holy Spirit which in that case would indicate that the Successor of Judaism didn't have a clue what He was talking about (God Forbid)
OR....
Jesus was the Messenger of God, who was sent to guide the lost sheep of Israel back to Salvation and regularly consulted the Father for He is Greater than His Son, Jesus (John 14:28).

So...will you worship Jesus, or the one Jesus worshiped? One glaring problem the Christians have is that Jesus prayed, and had a God himself. This logically lets us conclude that Jesus cannot be God. The logical thing to do is worship and pray to the one Jesus prayed to. If Jesus told you that he had a God, would you honestly take Jesus as God? The logical answer is no, but Christians throw all logic out of the window when it comes to their Bible. When Jesus prays to a God and said explicitly that he has a God therefore it is pretty ungodly of him to indicate his complete devotion to the one true God if he was God in the first place. Here are some points to consider. While reading notice how Jesus shows us the difference between Jesus and His God, our God the Almighty:
John 20:17
Numbers 23:19
Matt 26:39-44
John 8:42-43
Acts 2:22-23
Acts 17:30-31
1 Timothy 2:5
Mark 13:32
John 13:3
Matt 16:27
John 17:1-26
John 7:16
John 12:49
John 8:42-43
John 12:49-50
John 8:25-27
John 14:23-26
John 17:3
Matt 15:24
Matt 16:13-17
Mark 2:10
Mark 5:26-27
and many more...

Note: That in John 8:42-43, Jesus get quite upset with individuals calling Him God. So with all these verses in the Bible pointing to Jesus as separate from His Father, isn't worth looking at the JW's a little closer?
Debate Round No. 1
NewLifeChristian

Pro

To begin with, I would like to thank persianimmortal for accepting this debate. Unfortunately, I did not make it clear enough that the first round was acceptance, so the format of the debate will be slightly altered. During this round, I will present my first argument, not rebut my opponent's first argument. After this round, my opponent will rebut this argument I am making and after he does that I will rebut his original argument. Again, thanks to persianimmortal for accepting this debate and God bless.

JW's Practices of Disfellowshipping and Shunning

Unfortunately, a common practice done by cults is "disfellowshipping" and "shunning". While engaging in this practice, the Jehovah's Witness cult is both denying Biblical scripture and Jesus's teachings. Throughout the Bible, God teaches us about His love and how we are to never to turn our backs on others who are in need. This is taught in verses such as Matthew 25:35. The practice of disfellowship in JW is not a rare one. In fact, over 70,000 Witness are disfellowshipped a year. [1]

JW's Denial of the Trinity

The Jehovah's Witness cult blatantly denies the trinity, calling it out as a false teaching and more. It becomes clear when you read verses such as Matthew 28:19 that the trinity is indeed Biblical and an important truth that we mustn't ignore. This is just one of many other Biblical principles that the JW cult ignores.

JW's Opposition to Individuals Interpreting the Bible

Perhaps one of the biggest give-aways to the the Jehovah's Witness denial of Biblical truth is the fact that the Jehovah's Witness group says the following about Witness intrepeting scripture: "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization and not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." [2] We can tell, just by this statement, that they aren't open to other interpretations of the Bible. That's why they have their own altered version of the Bible, the "New World Translation". There are many flaws in their false and twisted interpretation of the Bible as you will see under the next subtitle.

JW Cult Leaves Out Acts 8:37

Perhaps one of the most interesting parts of JW's cult legacy is that they leave out an important scripture from their "New World Translation" of the Bible. The verse is Acts 8:37 in which Philip is talking about who may be baptized. It reads: "And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Doesn't go too well with JW doctrine, does it?

JW's False Prophecies

The Bible warns us in Matthew 24:24 and Deuteronomy 18:22 that there will be many false prophets in the world and that those who make false prophecies in the name of Jesus Christ are not to be listened to, but, to be ignored. The Jehovah's Witness cult is infamous for making false prophecies. In fact, in 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God. [3] Moreover, they started their false prophecies legacy when their founder, Charles Taze Russell, predicted that the world would end in 1914. [4]

Sources:

[1] http://www.jwfacts.com...;
[2] https://carm.org...[3] https://carm.org...;
[4] http://www.jwfacts.com...;

persianimmortal

Con

persianimmortal forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
NewLifeChristian

Pro

Why I did better than my opponent: 1.) My opponent forfeited 2.) I trust that my citations and organized argument w/ subtitles will be preferred over my opponent's unreferenced "wall-of-text".
persianimmortal

Con

persianimmortal forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by persianimmortal 1 year ago
persianimmortal
Please vote for Pro. I have been busy with exams and I wasn't available. Vote pro.
Posted by Ninjahammer 1 year ago
Ninjahammer
"Tell me...how can one adopt morality and virtue without even slightly acknowledging that religion is at its core?"
Logic and reason over faith and superstition. Why would you need to believe in magic to wish for the best of all humans?

"Religion is a means to suppress our lower and primitive nature in handling the issues that are present in the world today."
No it is a means for the masses to be controlled via their fear of the unknown leading to attrocities just like the crusades. How is believing in magic "suppressing our lower and primitive nature"?

"How can human evolution claim victory over these virtues when religion progressively provides the mind's "common sense database" with updates on those virtues?"
Religion doesn't provide common snce, it tries to destroy it, by telling us to base our beliefs in faith instead of reason and evidence.

"Just saying ninjahammer, I gots no beef with you and I'm just having a friendly discussion here so I hope I don't offend your views, my friend :)"
No risk of that pal.
Posted by Ninjahammer 1 year ago
Ninjahammer
"Judaism is "restrictive" because man over time made it out to be like that. The religion itself teaches inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness"
This is wrong, Judaism has always been reserved for the chosen people.

"The modern Jewish community is so wrapped in themselves in a thick veil of self created false imaginings"

I would say the exact same about christians, wether ancient or modern.

"Crusades and Witch hunts...highly questionable and again points to people's ability to manipulate the trust that people put in them which in turn, creates veils in front of people's eyes which leads them to promote actions such as Witch hunts and Crusades."

God promoted genocide multiple times in the old testament, the Quran encourages martyrdom, and witches are mentioned as non fiction in the bible.

"On what grounds would you say that religion is a "lack of thought"?"
It tells you to base everything on faith instead of reason.

"Cults reflect and find ways to promote superstition."
So do religions.

"So, which "god" told anyone not to care about your neighbor? Find me one."
Plenty of the gods of ancient mytholigies weren' focused on how you treated others. But that wasn't my point. I said if a god did, would it then not be a religion?

"The monotheistic religions have one God so if those religions all pray to the One True God, which "god" are you referring to?"
All gods are equally fake.

"I was just telling you that cults and religions promote unity but the purpose to which one is united for is important. Did Nazism in your opinion promote anything to the wellbeing of mankind?"
So you are trying to say that cults are bad and religions are good? Also are you calling Nazism a cult because that goes against what you said about them being secretive.

Your biggest problem is that when somebody is using religion for something you deem good you say that shows that religion is good, but when they use it for evil they are abusing it.
Posted by NewLifeChristian 1 year ago
NewLifeChristian
Just to clarify, I value Jehovah's Witnesses. In fact, I have a friend who is a Witness. This debate isn't about whether or not Witnesses are bad people (they're not bad people) it's about whether or not the actual religion of Jehovah's Witness is a cult.
Posted by persianimmortal 1 year ago
persianimmortal
Just saying ninjahammer, I gots no beef with you and I'm just having a friendly discussion here so I hope I don't offend your views, my friend :)
Posted by persianimmortal 1 year ago
persianimmortal
Judaism is "restrictive" because man over time made it out to be like that. The religion itself teaches inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness but as time passes, everything eventually expires, therefore the adherents are to follow those guidelines until a new set of Guidance is Revealed that is applicable to their time period and social settings. The modern Jewish community is so wrapped in themselves in a thick veil of self created false imaginings, that the original Message becomes lost and general outside view toward their belief becomes negative. Some even go as far as to call it outdated. So cults spawn as a result of this outdated-ness and lack of Guidance. Wayward people take the word of an individual that claims authority and people's spiritual momentum is halted by following these certain individuals.

Crusades and Witch hunts...highly questionable and again points to people's ability to manipulate the trust that people put in them which in turn, creates veils in front of people's eyes which leads them to promote actions such as Witch hunts and Crusades.

On what grounds would you say that religion is a "lack of thought"? Cults reflect and find ways to promote superstition. So, which "god" told anyone not to care about your neighbor? Find me one. The monotheistic religions have one God so if those religions all pray to the One True God, which "god" are you referring to?

I was just telling you that cults and religions promote unity but the purpose to which one is united for is important. Did Nazism in your opinion promote anything to the wellbeing of mankind?

Tell me...how can one adopt morality and virtue without even slightly acknowledging that religion is at its core? Religion is a means to suppress our lower and primitive nature in handling the issues that are present in the world today. How can human evolution claim victory over these virtues when religion progressively provides the mind's "common sense database" with updates on those virt
Posted by Ninjahammer 1 year ago
Ninjahammer
@persianimmortal

I was refering to NewLifeChristian's comment about all other religions being cults on the reason they are false.

You could dismiss my comment really easy by just going with the dictionary definition of cult.

But just for the fun of it let's look at your definition. (Oh by the way, many cults are also religions.)
"False....A cult is based on secretive superstitions created by a leader who orders practices to be done that are mysterious and highly questionable.A religion is open to all."
A religion is open to all? Judaism is very ristrictive, is it therefore not a religion? Also would you not call the crusades or the witch hunts highly questionable?

"It is a method of thought that provides the individual with a sense of meditation. It places that individual in a state of reflection on matters that concern the wellbeing of the individual and his/her comrades."
Religion isn't a method of thought, it is a method of lack of thought. But that aside how does this seperate it from a cult, are you saying cults can't reflect upon the wellbeing of others? Also are you saying if people worshipped a god that told them they shouldn't care about other people it wouldn't be a religion?

"The definition of cult is viewed as negative however both religion and cult bring people together and give them a sense of belonging."
So does nazism... what's your point?

"It is important to understand the purpose of human existance and to contribute to the advancement of civilization, through a positive, open channel that can be accessed by all. A cult cannot do that...but a religion can invigorate the soul of the misguided and produces the necessary ingredients to build the foundations of morality and virtue; something that humanity so desperately needs."
This is just mindless preaching, more exactly the kind of preaching most dictators have made use of through the ages.

"God bless"
The emperor protects.
Posted by persianimmortal 1 year ago
persianimmortal
@ninjahammer
False....A cult is based on secretive superstitions created by a leader who orders practices to be done that are mysterious and highly questionable.
A religion is open to all. It is a method of thought that provides the individual with a sense of meditation. It places that individual in a state of reflection on matters that concern the wellbeing of the individual and his/her comrades.

The definition of cult is viewed as negative however both religion and cult bring people together and give them a sense of belonging. It is important to understand the purpose of human existance and to contribute to the advancement of civilization, through a positive, open channel that can be accessed by all. A cult cannot do that...but a religion can invigorate the soul of the misguided and produces the necessary ingredients to build the foundations of morality and virtue; something that humanity so desperately needs. God bless
Posted by Ninjahammer 1 year ago
Ninjahammer
All religions are cults as none of them are real.
Posted by NewLifeChristian 1 year ago
NewLifeChristian
@HardRockHallelujah - I fully agree, the Jehovah's Witness Bible is deceitful and ultimately flawed.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by tajshar2k 1 year ago
tajshar2k
NewLifeChristianpersianimmortalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
NewLifeChristianpersianimmortalTied
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Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
NewLifeChristianpersianimmortalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro.