The Instigator
Satire
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MyDinosaurHands
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

The Joker is the "hero" we deserve and need.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
MyDinosaurHands
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/16/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 509 times Debate No: 63331
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

Satire

Pro

The argument focuses only on The Joker from Batman: The Dark Knight since there are too many variations of his character. The Joker is the antagonist of the movie but this does not make him the villain. The Joker is more of a bringer or a teacher to society. In terms of legal actions Joker is of course seen as a criminal and in turn a villain. But is the Joker really evil? While your actions may speak the most of who you are the motives behind them can be as determining of your character. In one of the scenes in the movie Joker sets up a trap in which there are two boats out in the ocean and one is full of law abiding citizens whereas the other is full of prisoners. The joker states that each ship is connected to a timed bomb and that each boat has a person who has access to the controller to one of the bombs. The remotes that these people in the boats have access to is connected to the opposing boat. And the Joker states that the way to survive is for one boat to blow up the other. In the civilian boat one woman says "We don"t all have to die; those men had their chance". Joker"s social experiment shows the selfish nature of humans. The lack of empathy in the woman's statement is easy to spot. Ultimately no one pressed the button and neither of the boats were blown up. The Joker was not meaning to take lives but to prove his point of the lack of empathy in society. In real life I do believe one side would press the button. People from both of the boats would value themselves over one another. The Joker most likely had the boats set up so that the side that did press it was the one to blow up. While his game was deceitful it had a purpose and I'm positive that people on both boats gained a life changing experience. Was the Joker's test cruel? Yes. But I argue that The Joker is both the hero we deserve and need. While people have made some progression in becoming humanitarian they still have a lot of work to do. A majority of people still lack empathy and can only connect with others whom are similar to them. Society still ignores the needs of many of its own suffering people. Louis CK once said, "You really have a choice. You can have candles and horses and be a little kinder to each other or let someone suffer immeasurably, far away, just so you can leave a mean comment on YouTube while you"re taking a sh**." This is why we both need and deserve The Joker. We have failed to improve ourselves as human beings and as the desire for possessions grow people will become less caring.
MyDinosaurHands

Con

It would seem my opponent's basic contention is that the Joker, as supposedly exemplified in the fairy scene, is out to teach us lessons of empathy and deeper understanding of ourselves and one another. I will be addressing that contention later in my arguments, but first I will start with some reasons that the Joker is not a hero.

VARIOUS KILLINGS, TORTURE, ETC
I'm just going to run through a list of what the Joker did in the Dark Knight, so we can all see that really he is just out to have a good time, in his own animalistic way.

https://www.youtube.com...
In this video, the Joker kills a bank manager, and his fellow robbers. Next, he kills a bodyguard of Gambol's. Then, he kills Gambol and his other bodyguards. It should be noted that he does not only kill them, he tortures them. He holds a blade in Gambol's mouth while he gives him his crazy talk. After killing Gambol, he forces the 3 remaining bodyguards to kill each other with a pool cue in order to survive. This is unnecessary brutality, even if you think they deserved death. Then we see the Joker torture and eventually kill a Batman copycat. I could see how someone wouldn't care about the people the Joker killed up until this point, but it'd be a tough argument to make to say that a man who simply wanted to do good deserved to die. Then the Joker busts Wayne's party, frightening all guests and threatening some guests with death, sticking his blade in their mouths. It should be noted that the Joker had a dead detective with him when he exited the elevator. Then he attempts to kill Rachel when Batman makes a very poor choice of words.

https://www.youtube.com...
In this video the Joker kills a police officer. We see what looks like a burning police truck in the middle of the road, so we can safely assume that the Joker killed some firefighters to get a hold of that. The truck the Joker is in t-bones a SWAT truck into a river. That may have lead to drowning deaths. Joker fires an RPG at a police cruiser. We can't confirm, but the guy(s) in there is (are) probably dead. Joker attempts to kill Harvey Dent and all SWAT officers in the SWAT truck with him. Joker fires at innocent civilians in their vehicles as Batman drives nearer and nearer to him.
Debate Round No. 1
Satire

Pro

Satire forfeited this round.
MyDinosaurHands

Con

Well my point has been made, though I accidentally cut myself off before I could make a nice conclusion. The Joker is a guy who kills indiscriminately. Even if he somehow is imparting upon us a greater sense of humanity, we could do with a different 'hero', one who imparts a greater sense of humanity without killing tons of people.
Debate Round No. 2
Satire

Pro

Satire forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by MyDinosaurHands 2 years ago
MyDinosaurHands
Satire, my apologies for that argument, it's only half complete. Somebody was talking to me as I was saving it and I accidentally hit submit.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
SatireMyDinosaurHandsTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
SatireMyDinosaurHandsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Con. Pro forfeited the final two rounds, which is rarely acceptable conduct in any debate setting. S&G - Tie. I almost gave it to Con just because of Pro's format. A block of text is unappealing, but due to this being subjective bias, I leave this as a tie. Arguments - Con. Pro failed to rebut any of Con's challenges which left Pro unable to win arguments. Sources - Con. Pro failed to utilize sources whereas Con did. Clear win for Con.
Vote Placed by UchihaMadara 2 years ago
UchihaMadara
SatireMyDinosaurHandsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF