The Instigator
twocupcakes
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
ScottyDouglas
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Judeo-Christian God has Poor Communication Skills

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
twocupcakes
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/24/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,647 times Debate No: 24425
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

twocupcakes

Pro

I am arguing that the Judeo-Christian God has poor communication skills. My opponent will argue that he has strong communication skills. 72 hours, 4 rounds, 8000 characters max. I hope for a good debate!

Here are some acceptable definitions. I am not really too picky about definitions or anything, just no shananigans. Good Luck!

Judeo-Christian God- is the God of Jewish, Christian, Muslim faiths

Communication Skills-
  • Communication is a process whereby information is enclosed in a package and is channeled and imparted by a sender to a receiver via some medium.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_skills

  • The transfer of opinions, ideas, knowledge and/or skills through various media, such as verbal, visual and written.
www.grb.uk.com/he_glossary.0.html

  • the ability to use language (receptive) and express (expressive) information.
www.chop.edu/service/22q-and-you-center/about-chromosome-




ScottyDouglas

Con

I thank my opponent for this challenge.

I agree with the structure my opponent applied. So...

I accept your challenge and hope for a good interesting debate.

I await my opponents argument.

I send it back to Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
twocupcakes

Pro

Thanks ScottyDouglas for accepting the debate! Should be good!


God Wants People to Know About Him

I am assuming that God wants people to know about him. I expect my opponent will agree that God wants people to know about him. Most people of the Judeo-Christian God believe that God wants people to know about him. If you disagree with this please let me know.



God has Poor Communication Skills


God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. There are over 41,000 different sexts of christianity [1], 5 main sects of Judaism [2], and many branches of Islam [3]. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. Effective communicators deliver messages to recipients without confusion. However, as i just pointed out, there is lots of confusion as to what God is/wants. Because there is so much confusion as to what God wants/is, God communicated himself poorly to humans.



God does a poor job communicating through prophets

Perhaps someone may believe that God had effectivly communicated using a prophets like Joseph Smith, Jesus or Moses. However, he does not. God is not convincing enough that the prophet actually is a prophet. Many normal undivine people claim that they are prophets. Here is a list of many false prophets [4]. God has not done a good enought job differentiating "real" prophets from fake ones. You may say that prophets have witnesses that can atest to their divinity. However, there is also a tendency for people to be "false" witnesses. Almost every of the many prophets have witnesses. Joseph Smith [5] did Jesus and Mohammed did. All the witnesses cannot be right, so many of the witnesses are wrong. God does not communicate well enough which prophets are real and which are not.

God does a poor job communicating through divine feeling

Maybe someone thinks that God communicates well through divine feelings, however he does not. God does not communicate which divine feelings are from God and which are just crazy thoughts. The "divine feelings" that religious people have feel the same as crazy thoughts. Furthermore, people have divine feelings for every sect of every religion. So all the "feelings" cannot be correct. It is impossible to tell which "feelings"are right or wrong.

Go does a poor job communicating through religious texts

Religious texts have been retranslated many times. So the original message of God has been dilluted. Clear messages are not dilluted through translation. Also, religious texts require interpretation. Clear communicators do not need the receipient of the message to "interpret" what they said. If God's communication was clear, people would need not interpret, they would just know.


Conclusion

God wants us to know about him, but has done a poor job communicating his message. This is most easily seen in the fact that there are so many different beliefs of God. There is a lot of confusion around God. If God communicated well, there would not be so much confusion. Also, if God communicated clearly people would not need to "interpret" his message.



http://christianity.about.com...
http://judaism.about.com...;
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
http://www.preteristarchive.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
ScottyDouglas

Con

//I first like to say thank you to TwoCupCakes for this debate. I hope we can have a great discussion.\\

*Beginning Note* I will rebuttal my opponent while posting my argument in this round. I will also use the same contentions my opponent has.

=God Wants People to Know About Him=

God does want us to know Him, this is one of God's top priorities.[1] There are many passages within the Bible that talk of the importance of our communication with God. He expresses many times the desire for us to know and love Him.

KJV-R (Webster) Jeremiah 24:7 "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart."

The closer we come to God, the more we know about God, the more we know more about love. God is love.[2] When you begin to experience God, His love flows through you.

KJV-R (Webster) Matthew 22:35 "Then one of them who was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said to him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment."
KJV-R (Webster) Deuteronomy 11:1 "Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, always."

Your life depends on your communication with God.[3] It is important you know God. The non-repentant do not accept the Bible nor God. They choose themselves or false Gods, thus rejecting the love of God and that leads to eternal damnation.

=God has Rich Communication Skills=

God has terrific communication skills. God is communication. God gives to us and we receive His pure information.[4] God is a personal and rational being, He is a communicator. Whether we know it or not God is inspiring us and convicting us. He gives from himself unto us and we do not know he is doing so. No one can know God without reaching out to God in a heart felt way.[5] God has given the reason to look for Him.

The Christian God's message has been displayed in the Bible. There have been many beliefs and doctrines that have branched off from Jesus Christ teachings. True followers read it themselves and allow it to speak to them. Many from past and present commit acts that was not ever interpreted in the Bible but from their own minds.[6] True Christianity is one faith, one word and ONE GOD. There are many beliefs on what the Bible says but all you need is that Bible and that One God.

The real misinterpretations come from men and not God.[7] God has given the true word. Men have took from it and added to it, This is the real cause of confusion.

=God does a great job communicating through prophets=

The foundation of Scripture is that God communicated with us through the prophets and apostles.[8] In the past God gave the Word through the prophets and apostles. Many times at many places and in various ways.
Though in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son.[9] Jesus is our salvation and for our prayer. The Holy Ghost sanctifies us for our salvation.

KJV-R (Webster) John 14:6 Jesus saith to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God and his actions can not be compared to the Biblical teachings. His actions prove that. Many claims at being prophets are false. Is this a fault of God or complete falsehood by the person claiming to be?
KJV-R (Webster) 1 John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

God had direct communication with his prophets. You know who is a prophet by reading and studying the Bible for selves. This will enable you to recognize who is of God and who is not. Without study in the Bible and blessing of the Holy Spirit then we will fall for anything.

=God does a great job communicating through divine feeling=

God used miracles in the Bible. He confirmed the His presence to those through whom He displayed the miracles. This gave them authority to add their writings as Scripture for all man.[10] The Bible is now completed. The purpose for the miracles were for our belief today today because we do not see as such and these miracles are signs of God.

KJV-R (Webster) Habakkuk 2:14 "For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea."

God communicates well through divine feelings. As I said before to know you are having revelation from God is to stay in his word and do his will. This gives you the tools to know God's will over satan's.

=Go does a great job communicating through religious texts=

God communicates to man through His Word, the Bible.[11]

“And from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” II Timothy 3:15-17

Religious texts have been re translated many times. Very true. Though is it naive to think a incorruptible God who gave us His word will let that Word become corrupt by common man. To know which word is right is to have God first and through Him, His word will speak to you.

=Conclusion=

God wants us to know about him, and has done a perfect job communicating his message. This is most easily seen in the fact that there are so many believers of God. There is a lot of confusion around from people about God. If people would trust God instead of themselves then there would not be so much confusion.

KJV-R (Webster) Jeremiah 9:23 "Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise loving kindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD."
(Psalms 4:2-3 NKJV) "How long, O you sons of men, Will you turn my glory to shame? How long will you love worthlessness And seek falsehood? Selah (3) But know that the LORD has set apart for Himself him who is godly; The LORD will hear when I call to Him.
(Psalms 10:4 NKJV) The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts."
Negated God communicates very well.

=Resources=
http://www.examiner.com... http://www.seekgod.org... http://www.divinerevelation.org... http://bible.org... http://robertwells.tripod.com...
Debate Round No. 2
twocupcakes

Pro

Sorry Scotty, I never got around to posting my response. I apologoze. I'd be happy to post a round 4 response, but I'm going on a trip so I can respond Monday night. So, if you could wait a bit before posting that would be great. Sorry man.
ScottyDouglas

Con

I hope my opponent can respond in the last round. I will await her response since she need further time.

I thank everyone and will send it back to Pro until she responds....->
Debate Round No. 3
twocupcakes

Pro

Thanks for passing on last round and waiting so that we can finish the debate. I really appreciate it. I was away visiting family and stuff, but I'm back now. By the way, you called me she hahaha. I'm a guy lol.

God communicating himself to us is very important to God, and our life depends on God communicating himself to us. So, God should be extremely clear when communicating with us.

The standard of communication God has to meet is quite high. My opponent asserts that our life depends on communicating with God, and communicating effectivly is one of God's top priorities. If God did not care if we knew about him, that may explain why the message of God is so confusing. However, since God cares very very much that we know about him and our life depends on it , God's message should be extremely clear.

God has poor communication skills

My opponent argues that God communicates well, "The real misinterpretations come from men and not God.[7] God has given the true word. Men have took from it and added to it, This is the real cause of confusion." he says.

The only reason one could blame men is if humans were completely incapable of understanding God. Since it is important to God that we know him, God would not create people completly incapable of understanding him. God would not value an impossible task.

Notice a contradiction my opponent makes. He says "The real misinterpretations come from men and not God.[7] God has given the true word. Men have took from it and added to it, This is the real cause of confusion." Yet later when talking about religious texts my opponent claims "Though is it naive to think a incorruptible God who gave us His word will let that Word become corrupt by common man." My opponent claims that misinterpretations of men caused confusion and that God will not allow men to corrupt his message to cause confusion. This is a complete contradiction.

Succesful communication can be measured as to how well people understand the message. Just in Christianity there are 41,000 different demoninations, and nearly every single person has a different personal view of God [1]. Many people try very hard to understand God. God fails at clearly communicating his message

God communicates poorly through prophets

My opponent argues that the Bible says which prophet is real and which is not. "You know who is a prophet by reading and studying the Bible for selves. This will enable you to recognize who is of God and who is not." My opponent claims, Jesus is the real prophet because the Bible says so. So, God's communication through prophets is contingent on the God communicating well through the Bible. There are many religious texts and no clear way to differentiate them and find the "real" one. ( I will later go deeper into religious texts)

God communicates poorly through divine feelings

My opponent argues that miracles were shown to writers of the Bible to confirm their divine feelings. "God used miracles in the Bible. He confirmed the His presence to those through whom He displayed the miracles." Again this is contigent on the Bible, which i will show was poorly communicated later.

My opponent only justifies the divine feelings felt by those who wrote the Bible. To divine feelings felt by anyone else ever, my opponent says "As I said before to know you are having revelation from God is to stay in his word and do his will." I think he says that people just "know" they are divine feelings. My argument in round 2 stands. It is impossible to tell which "feelings"are from God or from ones own mind.

God communicates poor through religious texts

My opponent argues that God would not let men cause misunderstanding by mistranslating religious texts. "Though is it naive to think a incorruptible God who gave us His word will let that Word become corrupt by common man." this contradicts his previous claim that misunderstanding is caused by men and not God. My opponent said"The real misinterpretations come from men and not God.[7] God has given the true word. Men have took from it and added to it, This is the real cause of confusion." My opponent argues both that men cannot cause misunderstanding and that men are the cause of misunderstanding. He can't have it both ways.

My opponent says that "divine feelings" effectivly show which religious text is correct. He says "To know which word is right is to have God first and through Him, His word will speak to you."My opponent argues that "divine feelings" show that the Bible is correct and the Bible shows that the "divine feelings" are God. This is circular faulty reasoning. There is no way of knowing which religious text should be followed and religious texts require interpretation because they are not clearlt communicated. My argument in round 2 stands.

Conclusion

I have shown that the Judeo-Christian God has poor communication skills. Just in Chistianity, there are over 41,000 different denominations. There are also many different denominations of the Jewish and Muslim faiths. Nearly every single person has a different view of God. It is very very important too God that we know about him and the life of Humans depend on it( my opponent asserts this). So, because of the vast importance of this message, God ought be extremely clear when communicating to humans. I have shown that God does not communicate clear enough. He has poor communication skills.

My opponent argues poorly. He contradicts himself and uses circular reasoning. He claims that God is clear and men cause confusion. He also claims that God will not allow men to corrupt his message. My opponent argues that "divine feelings" effectivly show that the Bible is correct, and the "divine feelings" are correct because the Bible says so. All of his counter arguments have been debunked.

Should be an easy vote for pro.

[1]http://christianity.about.com...


ScottyDouglas

Con

ScottyDouglas forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by twocupcakes 4 years ago
twocupcakes
thanks for waiting man
Posted by ScottyDouglas 4 years ago
ScottyDouglas
@Twocupcakes. Im busy as well. I will wait till my time is up.
Posted by twocupcakes 4 years ago
twocupcakes
Thank you for the comment. Let me be more clear. People from different sects have different "divine feelings" as to what "good" is. Some have "divine feelings" that being "good" means not eating pigs, not eating cows, not working on the Sabbath, that one must believe the Bible literally to be good, that alcohol is bad, suicide bombing is good, discriminating against homosexuals is good, that believing in Joseph Smith is good, that believing in Joseph smith is bad.

Yes, I suppose God is clear that he wants us to do "good". However, he is unclear as to what "good" is.
Posted by Truedark 4 years ago
Truedark
"people have divine feelings for every sect of every religion. So all the "feelings" cannot be correct. It is impossible to tell which "feelings"are right or wrong" if i may comment. is it not possible that all of them get these divine feelings? IF the lord wants us to be "good" would he not let us know by the "feelings" Regardless of sect or faith so that we may continue to be "good"
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 4 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
twocupcakesScottyDouglasTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, and several of Pro's arguments went unrefuted
Vote Placed by Microsuck 4 years ago
Microsuck
twocupcakesScottyDouglasTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: SD forfeited in the end. Pro wins because con didn't adaquetly challenge pro's contentions.