The Instigator
Arganger
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Youraverageunicorn
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Leben

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/28/2017 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 524 times Debate No: 104206
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (0)

 

Arganger

Pro

WELCOME TO THE LEBEN. For this group, to show yourself as a member, change your profile picture to the one I have.http://www.debate.org......

Beliefs of this group are,




To uphold the right to life

Prolife

Anti Euthanasia

Anti Death Penalty


Besides these, members are encouraged to have any veiws what so ever, and to debate over even the core beliefs within the group to sharpen skills. Members are required to follow and uphold DDO's rules and terms of use.If one chooses to accept this debate, it will be over the usefulness of any groups on this site, and con will be against any groups existing on this site.


You can still join if you agree with at least three core values of four, but under that circumstance you need to challenge me to a debate on the area of disagreement.

Benefits to the Leben include I will accept any debate I am challenged to by members even if I disagree with the position, and I am willing to judge debates as I have voting privileges. Once we have at least four members we will start hosting tournaments and will hold elections to determine the leader.

Youraverageunicorn

Con

I accept to this debate.

I will be arguing on these two platforms:

1. Groups for this site are useless.

2. Euthanasia is not bad.

I look forward to your argument.
Debate Round No. 1
Arganger

Pro


I am willing to get into Euthanasia but only under the condition that, due to my original statement, "If one chooses to accept this debate, it will be over the usefulness of any groups on this site, and con will be against any groups existing on this site." the extra area of argument will not be voted on.



Groups on this site build community and give people some identity on the site which keeps them here longer, while also engaging older users that may have been getting bored over time. It presents more interesting dynamics as people rally to defend their group, or just watch. It also (For the most part) causes more people to keep their conduct more consistent as it reflects on their group as well as themselves.



Euthanasia exists under the idea that certain people’s lives aren’t worth protecting. An old woman dying of cancer and in pain because of the treatments should be shown support and help just as would a depressed teenager. There is perhaps nothing harder to deal with then depression in life, yet even laws have been put in place to keep the suicidal teenager from killing themselves. So why should the old woman be allowed, and perhaps pressured, to die? After all everyone is due to die sometime. In a time of certain death, the person should be made to feel comfortable as possible. But that doesn’t mean cutting of the person’s life prematurely, just helping the person cope with, and enjoy every minute left.


Youraverageunicorn

Con

I"m sorry for bringing up Anti Euthanasia but thank you anyway for accepting to do that.

I believe groups on this site are not only bad but also useless. This site is filmed to the brim with trollers. You may ask: why are you using this site then? I didn"t know what I was getting into and I bump into decent people quite a lot.

A lot of the groups on this site stand for things that should be considered a joke. Even if they weren"t joking, some of these groups are racist, or sexist, or anti semitic, and things that are never good. Groups on websites with people you don;t know is kind of weird. Since we have internet censorship, there are pros and cons. One of the cons is, you don"t know who you"re actually talking to. It could turn out you"re in a group with 75 year old men who like to troll little kids. you just never know if someone is lying or not so it"s just weird to work with a bunch of people you find and you don"t know anything about them.

This website wasn"t meant to meet people and strengthen your debate skills, it was meant to test your debate skills against other people. If you knew everyone on this site in person, that would obviously be another story. But you"re involving in activity that lets you just talk to people who may not have any idea about what they"re talking about. You can easily get trolled by people who join groups on this site and it"s not worth getting involved in.

Anti Euthanasia
The examples you included don"t work for two reasons.
1. you compared age. A teenager to an old woman
2. One version is treatable, the other may not. Can you guess which one?

A teenager has a whole life to live. An old women definitely did live a life and if she chooses to end her life, let her do so.
Of course I don"t believe in things like the death penalty but you really have to think about what it would mean to have anti euthanasia.

A teenager with depression is treatable. We have therapies and hospitals to help things like depression. That"s why we don"t want them to die.

Someone with an incurable disease should have the choice to end their life. I don"t think anyone wants to be remembered as someone who fought to the end but suffered. who would want to spend the rest of their life suffering if you know it"s not curable? It"s just pointless. Living a suffered life is not a well lived life. And I agree, sometimes it"s nice to fight to the very end but is it really worth it? Your loved ones don"t want to see you hurt, they want you to be happy with your decision. My Grandmother died a few months ago but by choice. She was suffering from parkinson [and something else I can"t remember] for 4 years. She was so happy when she made the decision to end the suffering and that made us happy.

If you ran over a dog and you knew that it wouldn"t get better, wouldn"t you have ended it"s suffering in some sort of way so it doesn"t die a slow death? It just harms them even more. And that"s exactly the example to fit for what it"s like for a human.
Debate Round No. 2
Arganger

Pro

This site has, off the top of my head, four main trolls. A few more exist but are less active.

Two of them belong to a group known for racism

One of them is in a eugenics backing group that exists just to counter the before mentioned two

The other one is an Antitheist that has probably the lowest elo I have ever seen and has lost more than ten debates.

Now, while admitting that two of the groups on here are inherently trolling, there are still many more that range from directly trying to help the website like my own, to just trying to have some fun like that one rap group.

I would agree that if only one group existed on this site, as it was in the beginning, especially if as trollish, it would be a problem and drive people from the site. But that is not the case so instead we get a villain or two that other groups can use to draw attention to the site at large and competition rather than the racism, sexism and ableism of the scrape goat group.

I'm not mentioning names to avoid a potential conduct deduction. Anyway you have every right to be on this site, and this site isn't perfect, it's okay to point that out. Its social media hasn’t even been updated in years and I wonder if the current company that owns this, juggle LLC, has died off.

That goes into my first argument, because this website is seemingly dying off, it needs something to come about to give it a new spark. That is where groups come in. It gives people something to defend, and to ally themselves with. People want to see how the groups develop. Without them, simply put, people have less fun.

As much as I dislike the idea of a political party, they are an example of this mindset working. Do you think that people would be as invested in politics if they didn't have a team to root for? It becomes a game about which group is better, rather than simple ideas, and a story. Now, DDO has the advantage of being a site about challenging views and supporting them rather than real life where they are rarely challenged, which avoids some of the issues that go with that loyalty.

True you don't know who is in your group, but that goes for everything on the internet. You just have to be careful in general, and the groups have no need to go beyond the one site.

This site has many goals, I and many others use it for perfecting the art of arguing. Practice makes perfect.

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Depression isn't always treatable. In cases of Treatment-resistant depression the person may never recover. Even when they can recover from depression, it can require years of trial and error in medicine and other treatments to manage depression. I would argue that depression is the only thing in the world that can actually make you suffer.

Even cancers like Glioblastoma have a 4% survival rate for elderly people (To live at least five years after). That may not seem like a lot, but that is one kid per normal school classroom. It adds up. No one can truly know that someone will die of something, just that we all will die at all.

https://www.cancer.org...

You don't know if the teenager has a whole life to live. People die a lot, that same teenager could recover just to be hit by a truck or suffer a sudden deathly stroke. Death is something everyone will reach. An average of 16,375 teenagers die a year in the us.

But yet the inevitability of death should never be an argument to end it even sooner. Even a few moments count.

My great grandmother has Alzheimer’s, she is still happy in life even though she couldn't even remember that my brother exists and thought my grandmother was to different people. I'm sorry for your loss, but in many cases it isn't the ailment that someone finds unbearable but rather the sudden change. I strongly believe that with support anyone can enjoy every moment left, with no need to die sooner than needed.

Actually I have handled dying animals many times, I have never once even considered killing one, but I have stayed up the entire night to look over them and keep them comfortable the best I can and have stood with them as they died and have seen the last breath. Every moment is so important in that, if you kill them that is less time they have to enjoy life and simply be alive.

Also, as someone that plans to adopt and foster disabled children, no matter how disabled including terminally ill children, I am aware I will go through this with my own children as well. My wish for them is to treasure every moment because their life will be so short that every second is important. I assure you I won’t kill my children, no matter their pain. I want them to know that the pain doesn't define their life.


Youraverageunicorn

Con

The groups on this site are just pointless. Sure it gives someone to work in a group but people are joining everyday. I don't think the website is dying off.

Sure debate.org gives everyone different political views but debates are also created so even if you don't agree with a certain side, it challenges you to debate something you aren't used to. We're supposed to understand the other side, not prove on an online debate site which is better. That's for real life encounters.

Also, another disadvantage to having groups has to do with fairness in a debate. Imagine you are in a debate with someone who is part of a group, and even though you had the best debate, they still won. Why? Because they're group could vote for them and your opponent ends up having more points than you which isn't fair. See, when you're part of something bigger than yourself, the people around you support you no matter what. So in that case, even if you had a bad debate, they could vote for you unfairly because you have a connection with them. So groups can be unfair in debates.

Euthanasia
Just because some depression cases aren't treatable, that doesn't mean a lot aren't. You're way more likely to get over depression than an incurable disease. Even if you had a chance to live for an incurable disease, that doesn't mean you should have to live with it. It's really not fair to the person who is suffering.

I'm aware that people die a lot but that doesn't mean they have a chance to avoid that. With an incurable disease, you already live with that and that's something you can do something about to end the suffering, You can't do anything about a sudden death.

I'm also sorry about your great grandmother but she seems happy. My grandmother wasn't able to do a huge amount of things healthy people can do for 4 years. SHE wasn't happy. Euthanasia is a decision. I'm not asking for your great grandmother to end her life but my grandmother couldn't do anything anymore and there was nothing she could do to fix that.

With the animal thing, I'm talking about extreme cases like hitting one in the road and extreme suffering, You wouldn't want to leave it. You want the animal to be happy and out of it's misery.

That's sweet that you want to help children like that but euthanasia is for certain people's decision, when they are dying and they can't do anything about it. It ends the suffering more. It's just not fair to the person. People only end the suffering if they feel there's no happiness left for them. They'll be happy if they end the suffering.
Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 6 months ago
Youraverageunicorn
Haha okay, buddy you do you
Posted by ShyreWolf 6 months ago
ShyreWolf
@delusionalunicornb!tch

ok well then lets never speak to each other again, deal?
Posted by NDECD1441 6 months ago
NDECD1441
Aranger's classification of the 4 main trolls really surprised me. I wouldn't have thought of that. Well done.
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 6 months ago
Youraverageunicorn
You've already tried to prove me wrong on like, three debates. I'm just saying insulting me won't help you get out of anything
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 6 months ago
Youraverageunicorn
You've already tried to prove me wrong on like, three debates. I'm just saying insulting me won't help you get out of anything
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 6 months ago
Youraverageunicorn
You've already tried to prove me wrong on like, three debates. I'm just saying insulting me won't help you get out of anything
Posted by ShyreWolf 6 months ago
ShyreWolf
erm, yes that is true. Also, how is me insulting you connected to me showing up everywhere. Just to see your "next move" so I can prove you wrong. I don't know you (O.O) I can't even remember what debate we were talking on...
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 6 months ago
Youraverageunicorn
That's not true. And if you're trying not to get involved, don't throw childish insults my way. It doesn't help your case
Posted by ShyreWolf 6 months ago
ShyreWolf
@youraverageignorantfeministfvck

wtf? I've rarely spoken to you. I'm pretty sure we have only spoke to each other that ONE other time.
Posted by Youraverageunicorn 6 months ago
Youraverageunicorn
yes I am almost done
No votes have been placed for this debate.