The Instigator
crackofdawn_Jr
Con (against)
Winning
38 Points
The Contender
joshuaXlawyer
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points

The Legal Driving Age Should Be Changed to 18 in the U.S.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
crackofdawn_Jr
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,549 times Debate No: 6566
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (7)

 

crackofdawn_Jr

Con

I thank my opponent in advance for accepting this topic.

To make things fair I won't post any points this round and my opponent won't post any points in the last part of Round 4.

My opponent has the burden of proof for changing the driving age to 18.

Good luck.
joshuaXlawyer

Pro

Should the legal driving age be 18 with this a strongly agree,
i will now provide proof of this.
-----evidence-----
1#In the united states death toll there has been 10,560 deaths between the ages 15-24 this year so even at 18 your on thin ice.
http://www.the-eggman.com...
2#77% of teen crashes involved "avoidable" driver errors
3# Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for 15-20 year olds
4# Teens have the highest involvement rates in all types of crashes
http://www.drivingmba.com...
With this i say it should be 18 to drive, most teen the hit the road in the u.s 17 die in crashs, is this not reason enough to protect the people of the future.
Debate Round No. 1
crackofdawn_Jr

Con

Thank you for your timely response.

<<1#In the united states death toll there has been 10,560 deaths between the ages 15-24 this year so even at 18 your on thin ice.>>

So your saying that 18 is still bad? Isn't that the opposite of what you're trying to prove?

::CONTENTION 1::

On a maturity level, the difference between a 16 year-old sophomore or junior and an 18 year-old senior or college freshman is not that much. What do we gain from changing the driving age from 16 to 18? According to my opponent's own sources the accident rate won't be much better, as ages 16-24 cause most of the accidents, meaning that 16 year-old drivers and 18 year-old drivers are basically the same.

::CONTENTION 2::

When you're 16 you can be parentally supervised unlike when you're 18. When you're 18 you are a free man legally and are not required to live with, listen to, or talk to your parent or guardian. This means that brand new drivers will enter the street without any responsible adult to watch over them. I believe this is much more dangerous than a 16 year-old with adult supervision.

::CONTENTION 3::

When you're 16 a lot of job oppurtunities open up for you. If you don't have a car, that closes a lot of them down. A lot of stores would have a hard time finding workers if all there 16 and 17 year-olds didn't work there due to a long commute. If a teenager has a car he is more likely to have a job and in doing so help out the economy.

Good luck.
joshuaXlawyer

Pro

For the start for 2 and 3 of your CONTENTIONS im going to have to say Objection!
#2 Im going to say there something wrong with it we here are talking about the license correct. Well we never mention the permeit instead of having the permeit for 2 years we'll have it for 4 years lots of time to a.k.a train for driving.
#3"When you're 16 a lot of job oppurtunities open up for you"
Objection! For one what hole have you been in for the past 5 years? The economy is so bad that adults can not get jobs, yet you argue that teens need jobs thats a scham.
Debate Round No. 2
crackofdawn_Jr

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

By not objecting to Contention 1 he has conceded that contention.

<<#2 Im going to say there something wrong with it we here are talking about the license correct. Well we never mention the permeit instead of having the permeit for 2 years we'll have it for 4 years lots of time to a.k.a train for driving.>>

Actually, it's 1 to 3 years. The amount of a permit won't affect driver experience that much between 1 and 3 years because you're limited with a permit. You can't drive at night, you have to drive with an adult, and you're not even allowed to drive with people 18 and under. The problem is with new drivers happens when they can do all this new stuff on their own and they can't handle it. Think about, if you're on training wheels for 3 months you'll probably get it down and be ready to take them off. If you have them on for 3 years you'll be MORE ready, but by how much really? You still haven't experienced not having them and you've done nothing to prepare you for that. In this case, you'll probably do just as good as the other person who had it less.

<<#3"When you're 16 a lot of job oppurtunities open up for you"
Objection! For one what hole have you been in for the past 5 years? The economy is so bad that adults can not get jobs, yet you argue that teens need jobs thats a scham.>>

Two problems with that argument.

First, many jobs that teenagers go for are not jobs that adults would go for. This is because teenagers are happy with a minimum wage job, but adults aren't and can not. That's because an adult usually has to support a family which requries more than minimum wage, while a teenager does not. How many adults do you see working at McDonald's as their job? How many do you see working at Kroger (not including people who take jobs like that in retirement to take up time)? Without the teenage workforce restaurants, ice cream shops, and grocery stores would be well under-employed.

Second, basing a long-term law off a short-term problem is stupid. The recession isn't going to last forever, so using that as a reason does not hold any weight. To reiterate, teens don't get the same jobs adults who want to support a family do. Teens are an important part of the work force and the economy would probably get hurt even more if they weren't around.

Good luck.
joshuaXlawyer

Pro

Ah I see were your coming from but its not that smart for Example:
and you're not even allowed to drive with people 18 and under that is a lie, and further more theres no proof what so ever in your arugment.
I have proof that this is a lie: http://mva.state.md.us...
Without the teenage workforce restaurants, ice cream shops, and grocery stores would be well under-employed.

This is another lie that you have not proof of,in just one state 533,000 lost their jobs in november, now if your saying north carolina has alot of Mc,D's for all of these people and probly 200,000 more teens then be my guest but its not.
http://www.businessweek.com...
This is a lie again without proof:
basing a long-term law off a short-term problem is stupid. The recession isn't going to last forever
It will if gas is still used in 4 years from now and that problem isnt going to be always that, teens are dieing every day .

You say your limited with a permeit well thats the point your parents should teach you, so if you have your permeit your going to eventally have to ask your parents and they will sit there and tell you what your doing wrong.
Debate Round No. 3
crackofdawn_Jr

Con

I thank my opponent for his response.

<>

Sorry, I was talking about Texas. I thought it was the same for all states. "If you pass the Texas learner permit test, you are issued with the instruction permit, which allows you to drive under the supervision of a licensed driver 21 years old or older who holds a valid Texas driver license. For students who are enrolled in a parent-taught driver education course, the instructor should be the person designated on the application form. " This clearly states that you can't be alone in a car with someone 21 or under. (http://education4drivers.com...)

<>

It's not a lie, it's common sense. If the adult truly needs a job, it needs a job that can support a family (or themselves), right? Well working minimum wage 40 hours a week doesn't support a family/themself. It CAN however give a teenager a few extra bucks to spend with friends. I testify that your link is irrelevant to this topic. My contention is that teens take jobs that can't support a family or themselves when adults can't.

<>

Oh the irony, <>

Where's your proof. I honestly think that this statement is complete ludicrous. A recession can't last forever and I've already proved why the recession is a "non-factor".

<>

Parents don't always teach their kids what they should. That's why we have laws. However, if your 18 (and driving) your parents can't ease you into the new responsibilities, your out on your own. So you won't have to ask your parents for anything.

*****A reminder to my opponent, by taking this debate he agreed with the terms I stated in the first round including the one about him not posting any arguments in the latter part of round 4.*****

CONCLUSION:

My opponent has based his argument off of ludicrous theories and no evidence. I have based mine off of common sense and caution. Most accidents are caused by "avoidable errors" and changing the driving age to 18 won't change that because they'll still be new. My opponent has conceded to some of my points and inadequately refuted the others. He has no evidence to back up his refutations and I have refuted all of his.

VOTE CON.
joshuaXlawyer

Pro

yeah this is the part were i dont say anything but i would like to say one thing about my 3rd statments were i said if gases is still used if you see that part were i say that not really the point anyway and most of all my quotes have evidence just because you found one doesnt meen all of them thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by layla.tajmir 7 years ago
layla.tajmir
joshuaXlawyer, please learn how to spell.
Posted by Alex 7 years ago
Alex
You lost all your votes because all of your voters are vote-bombers which recently had their accounts closed, and their votes disappear with them.
Posted by joshuaXlawyer 7 years ago
joshuaXlawyer
i would love to ask the question how all my votes dissappered into thin air in almost all my debates
Posted by gregthedestroyer 8 years ago
gregthedestroyer
i wish i could have been con for this. you did a great job crackdawn. but i would have also liked to have done one. i would like to say that a lot of 16 year old teens have to get jobs right away because of personal reasons inside the house. or just because they want a job of need it for someting else. if they made it to 18 then how would they get around?
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
"By the way, stop saying "Objection!". This is not a video game and you're not in a courtroom. You look like a moron."

Relax. We're on a harmless debate site and he is merely harmlessly lighting up the mood. To quote the Joker, "Why so serious?" :D
Posted by Maya9 8 years ago
Maya9
Considering Pro's numerous typos and heavily flawed arguments, it is rather sickening that he is getting so many votes.

By the way, stop saying "Objection!". This is not a video game and you're not in a courtroom. You look like a moron.
Posted by crackofdawn_Jr 8 years ago
crackofdawn_Jr
"Avoidable driver errors" are caused by new drivers. Changing the driving age from 16 to 18 just changes the age of the new drivers, nothing else.
Posted by joshuaXlawyer 8 years ago
joshuaXlawyer
did you read any of my evidence
77% of teen crashes involved "avoidable" driver errors
you see that word avoidable with more time the can start to avoid them get the idea.
Posted by sgt.peppers 8 years ago
sgt.peppers
One thing I would have mentioned is that they aren't making the mistakes because of the age, but rather because they are just starting out. So increasing the age wouldn't make them less likely to get in an accident.
Posted by Johnicle 8 years ago
Johnicle
Don't like it. This would upset the balance between Federal and State Governments. 14 yoa is appropriate for South Dakota while 16 is appropriate for Minnesota while 18 is appropriate for New York. One law doesn't fix these problems.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by brendizzle29 8 years ago
brendizzle29
crackofdawn_JrjoshuaXlawyerTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:32 
Vote Placed by dirtbiker0405 8 years ago
dirtbiker0405
crackofdawn_JrjoshuaXlawyerTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by crackofdawn_Jr 8 years ago
crackofdawn_Jr
crackofdawn_JrjoshuaXlawyerTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
crackofdawn_JrjoshuaXlawyerTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by KRFournier 8 years ago
KRFournier
crackofdawn_JrjoshuaXlawyerTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by bgruber93 8 years ago
bgruber93
crackofdawn_JrjoshuaXlawyerTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by person9 8 years ago
person9
crackofdawn_JrjoshuaXlawyerTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00