The Instigator
BblackkBbirdd
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mags2
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

The Lion King is better than Frozen

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Mags2
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/14/2014 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,884 times Debate No: 66997
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (2)

 

BblackkBbirdd

Pro

Hi!

Structure of debate

Round 1: acceptance
Round 2: plot
Round 3: Music
Round 4: Conclusion/ why overall better
Mags2

Con

This will be a fun debate!
Debate Round No. 1
BblackkBbirdd

Pro

(Sorry this is so short, and not very good, I made an awful decision to make this debate in the middle of my mocks, but I’m going to be finished with them by the next round so it’s fine :) )

I know you all know it, but here’s the brief plot:

A lion cub is born, making his uncle second in line to the throne. His uncle, Scar then plots to kill the King and Simba so he can become king. Simba is tricked into fleeing in shame. After living in exile, he returns home to overthrow Scar and become king.

The plots of both movies have some distinct similarities , but I think the major difference is that the Lion King’s plot revolved more around the actions of a villain but Frozen was more about the relationships between the sisters and Elsa’s internal struggle.

The problem I found with Frozen’s storyline is that it revolves around miscommunications. Firstly, it could have all been avoided if her parents listened to the troll better and instead of shutting her away from the world , making her afraid of herself and not letting her learn control her powers, she would have just become queen and everything in this movie would have been avoided. Also, if Anna didn’t have to live in isolation she wouldn’t have fallen in love with literally the first guy she met .

Secondly, I’m a sucker for good villains. Villain stronger in the lion king because in Frozen, Elsa was originally going to be the villain, but they had to make Hans evil because they wrote ‘Let it go’, so they had to re-write half of the script. Also Hans isn’t evil in the beginning because he smiles after meeting Anna, even though no one can see him, and it’s not even an evil smile (http://2.bp.blogspot.com...'s+Frozen.pn )showing he’s genuinely glad to meet her, which contradicts with the betrayal scene where he says “As thirteenth in line in my own kingdom, I didn't stand a chance. I knew I would have to marry into the throne somewhere.” Meaning taking over way always his plan…this isn’t tricking the audience as much as sloppy storytelling, and a shortcoming of the plot.

A lot of people have been saying that Hans was the best Disney villain of all time, uh….no. Scar is so evil, he kills a child’s father in front of him, then makes him think it’s his fault, and orders his death. Not to mention that this was all part of a huge plot to successfully kill his unsuspecting bother so he can usurp the thorn. This shows that he was a better villain as Hans failed to fulfil his plot. Admittedly, a lot of people would say that him killing his father was inevitably going to happen (based on his first scene when he foreshadows that he’s going to do this https://www.youtube.com...) bearing in mind, it’s a kids move, and a lot of kids grow up watching films where there’s an obvious villain, who’s plot fails at the last minute, avoiding death and mayhem, so having a main character killed off so early into the movie is a real shock to kid (especially since the scene’s so dramatic).

In conclusion, The Lion King’s plot was stronger as it was more complex, while still being understandable for a child, because the time the lion king was made, Disney films were less focused on just entertaining small kid and more focused on whole ‘family entertainment’.


(so yeah, that's it, I ran out of time, opps, sorry)

Mags2

Con

Here is a brief plot of Frozen:
Anna and side kicks Kristoff, Sven, and Olaf go to find her sister Elsa, whose icy powers have trapped their kingdom in eternal winter. Elsa's countless attempts of concealing her powers, but fails and releases "the monster everyone fears she is." (Sort of quote from Hans.)

You said that " Hans was the best Disney villain of all time, uh".no. Scar is so evil." Uh.. no if anything, Hans was the best Disney villain. Name me any Disney movie where the prince comes across loving, sweet, and kind, but turns into a villain that everyone hates. i'll answer my question.. That movie is Frozen. Not to mention, he even tries to kill off Anna,the second in line of the throne! "better villain as Hans failed to fulfil his plot," how exactly did he fail? His plan was to be king, it would have worked until Anna was unfrozen by true love.

In conclusion, Frozen had a way better plot then Lion King. It taught girls to "Let it go," and to have self confidence in themselves. Quoting that song "and I don't care what they're going to say"." All Lion King has is songs about life and jungle cats. Frozen is one the best Disney movie ever, because it does not go along the line of that typical Disney movie like Lion King.
Debate Round No. 2
BblackkBbirdd

Pro

Rebuttals

Not to mention, he even tries to kill off Anna,the second in line of the throne! 'better villain as Hans failed to fulfil his plot,' how exactly did he fail?” he didn’t become king, and was imprisoned, while Scar successfully become king.

“His plan was to be king, it would have worked until Anna was unfrozen by true love.” If he didn’t lock Anna in a room which had a door which could be unlocked, with a carrot or made sure she was actually dead, as any competent villain would have, she wouldn’t have been unfrozen or been able to save Elsa. Also, if we watch the clip from the end of the movie, Elsa has her back to him for long enough for him to kill her. She starts turning her back to him about five seconds in, even ignoring the bit in the middle with Anna and Christoff (which was happening at the same time), he had a good eleven seconds to walk forward 7 feet and kill her. Thirdly, how did he not notice Anna running towards him?
https://www.youtube.com...

" All Lion King has is songs about life and jungle cats." sighs and wonders if has actually seen the Lion King

Music:

The music in the lion king was musical number were composed by Elton John and the lyrics by Tim Rice.

In terms of musical numbers, Lion king was superior, firstly as the songs generally fitted in with the setting of movie better than the songs of Frozen did in with its Scandinavian setting. With the acceptation of ‘Frozen heart’ and some of the background music like “Vuelie”, most of Frozen’s songs were quite ‘pop’ and generic in their style, so unlike in the Lion King, the music didn’t add much to the general fell of the movie.

Secondly, Frozen has no villain song, whereas the Lion King has arguable on of the best and most entertaining villain songs in Disney history (personally I think Hellfire was better, but it was still good). Part of the reasons that Be Prepared is so strong is that it’s mature enough to be engaging to an older audience, while being entertaining for kids.

https://www.youtube.com...;

Many song in the Lion King are also lyrical beautiful, such as the Circle of Life

https://www.youtube.com...;

“From the day we arrive on the planet//

And blinking, step into the sun//

There's more to see than can ever be seen//

More to do than can ever be done” That, I think is a nice massage for kids: the world is beautiful and filled with more opportunities than we can possibly take, so don’t waste it.

"Till we find our place” which tells kids that they are individuals, and should live their lives based on who they are and should treat them as one.
Both messages are positive and inspiring. 
 

Hans Zimmer’s score was also superb at capturing the mood and thoughts of the characters as well as the overall tone of the film.

One good example of this is the ‘ghost scene’

https://www.youtube.com...;

The scene begins with Simba not having much hope, which is show by the quiet and slow music. Then the music gets louder as Rafiki gives Simba hope, and African drums kick which 0:22, creating a feeling of mysticism.

After this the music goes back to how it was at the beginning as Simba is disappointed because ‘It’s just my [his] reflection’ and not his father. This is followed by the crescendo as the Ghost of Mufasa appears inspires Simba and Simba decides to return to pride rock, which is his place in the Circle Of Life (reads back and realise sounds like I’m talking about my cult’s beliefs or something…meh).

Other examples are:

the Elephant graveyard scene

https://www.youtube.com... See how the music becomes sinister as the Hyenas appear, then it gets more energetic in the case scene which adds to the feeling of desperation.

The Wilder beast Scene

https://www.youtube.com...

For instance around 2 minutes in where we can hear Simba’s desperation to see if his father is alive, flowed by the crescendo as Mufasa jumps from the stamped onto the rocks and climbs up showing Simba’s hope.

And in the end when Simba confronts Scar and we can hear his confusion 2 minutes into the video

https://www.youtube.com... confusion

Songs from score:

https://www.youtube.com...; ‘This land’

https://www.youtube.com... King Of Pride Rock


In conclusion, the Lion King sountrack is awesome.
( it's 4:41 in the morning so my brain turned to mush at the end, I should really go to bed....... Bye!)

Mags2

Con

Have fun in Scotland!

I said in the beginning,"All Lion King has is songs about life and jungle cats." Then you responded with "sighs and wonders if has actually seen the Lion King." Well, in your music, you said "many song in the Lion King are also lyrical beautiful, such as the Circle of Life."

Music:
Why does it matter that Frozen never had a villain song? First of all, in the movie, you don't figure out who the actual villain is until the end of the movie! (sighs and wonders if has actually seen Frozen.)

Every single song of Frozen had an inspiration to all who watched the movie.
Let it go: This song is hands down the best Disney song ever. The song can be related to anyone of this era. It reaches people to not hold things in, but to "let it go." Also, it's about girl power. Queen Elsa and Princess Anna fall into the category of do-it-yourself, not-your-mother"s princesses. And even after Elsa accidentally hurts Anna during their reunion, Anna sacrifices herself to save Elsa. Because sisterhood.Nowhere can this be found in Lion King. Last, it shows to be true to yourself.
"Don"t let them in, don"t let them see
Be the good girl you always have to be
Conceal, don"t feel, don"t let them know ""
When Elsa runs off, kids see a young woman shake of her fear and shame. Then, not to mention transforming into the independent Ice Queen that she is, that's incredibly powerful.

Also, Frozen has tons of other inspirational songs. For example, Do You Want to Build a Snowman. One of the best Disney songs (behind Let It Go) its catchy and has a lot of foreshadowing techniques.

Last is, In Summer. In it, Olaf says "Winter's a good time to stay in and cuddle,But put me in summer and I'll be a " happy snowman!" We were all expecting puddle!
Debate Round No. 3
BblackkBbirdd

Pro

BblackkBbirdd forfeited this round.
Mags2

Con

Since my opponent is not able to respond, I will not make an argument.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
You could both easily do a rematch. Also if both sides consent, this debate can be deleted (I would not do such until after the rematch is finished). If having this one deleted, I would argue conduct should automatically go to con during it, for willingly giving up a victory like that.
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
OH MY GOD, THIS IS SO UNFAIR, lT'S NOT ACTUALLY MY FAULT MY GRANDMOTHER HAS NO INTERNET CONNECTION , AND I COULDN'T POST MY ROUND 4 THE MORNING l WAS GOING ON MY FLIGHT (not that I'm blaming Mags2) BECAUSE lT WAS STILL HIS TURN TO POST.

SO.
ANGRY.
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
I'm going to Scotland today for Christmas, sorry, won't be able to finish

SUMMERY OF CONCLUSION:
the lion king is better :)

and now i have to go, bye
sorry
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
I can't analyse stuff when I'm tried, they're are also probably many hanging sentences.
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
awe that's soo cute
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
Realises forgot to add in the bit about Frozen's plot being a bit rushed at the end...facepalm
Posted by keri 2 years ago
keri
i always think frozen is better
Posted by Kristen214ef 2 years ago
Kristen214ef
Frozen is wayyyy better than the Lion King. I would even say that Frozen is the best Disney movie ever made! With two Academy Award nominations and a world-wide box office of just over $865 million, it"s fair to say Frozen has been a huge success for Disney. The emotional impact it has is far beyond any other animated movie I"ve ever watched.
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
Let the games begin!
Posted by BblackkBbirdd 2 years ago
BblackkBbirdd
Hugs
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
BblackkBbirddMags2Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
BblackkBbirddMags2Tied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: CONDUCT (con): Pro conceded this with a forfeit. VILLAINS (pro): The reasons against Hans fail, the fact that he doesn't have an ugly villain smile, is not sloppy storytelling, it's layered! However, Scar actually pulling off his whole scheme, I give massive credit for that. PLOT (con): In writing, what the characters themselves cause is always stronger than outside forces deciding what course their lives will take; so yes, the very reasons pro used against Frozen give it the point. MUSIC (con): Hans Zimmer is a great trump card, however con took this with sustaining the point against the Lion King's songs being all about cats and the cycle of life. SOURCES (tied): Voting sources on this, would be way too subjective, like 'which movie did Ragnar actually prefer.' Both side provided a good number of sources. However, pro next time remove the S from https:// to insert the videos; there's other tips like that in my New Users Guide.