The Instigator
Thorwald
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
ansel
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

The Lord God Almighty used His 'SPERM' to create Jesus, in the beginning.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/5/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,076 times Debate No: 37394
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (0)

 

Thorwald

Pro

There is a difference between 'begit/beget/begat/begotten'. and 'create/creation'.

In Genesis, the word 'begat' is used in the list the generations. This word is used to describe the creation of a human being through 'impregnation' of a female with male sperm. In other words, 'part of the body' of an existing human being, is used to 'create' a new human being.

When we look at the 'creation' of Adam & Eve, we find the following;

Adam was created from the 'earth'. Eve, however, was both 'created' AND 'begotten'. God used a rib from Adam in order to create Eve. Therefore, Eve was 'created' by God, and 'begotten from Adam'

The Lord God Almighty used His own sperm to create Jesus as Lord of Hosts, in the beginning. No woman was involved. This was the only time that God used His sperm to create a human being, thus...'ONLY BEGOTTEN'. It also explains, why Jesus is in the 'express image' of The Lord God Almighty.

Let us take this a step further;

When Jesus 'took on flesh' in order to become The Son of Man also, the physical appearance of Mary did NOT change His physical appearance (If you see me, you see The Father). This could only happen, if Jesus was implanted in Mary, as an 'embryo/fetus'. The body of Mary was used for the required gestation period until 'The Son of Man' could be born. This makes Mary the 'mother of The Son of Man', AND NOT 'the mother of God'. The scriptures tell us, that Jesus was created 'above the angels' in the beginning. As Son of Man, he was 'below the angels'. While on earth, Jesus was still The Lord of Hosts, and now also became, The Son of Man.

Jesus told the disciples, that He was looking forward to returning to the glory which He had,...'before the world was'...The Lord of Hosts...part of The Godhead per Isaiah 44:6.
ansel

Con

I disagree with this statement because
1 God is a spirit and not mortal which means god does not emit sperm directly; sperm is emitted from mortals created by god.
2 Jesus was born 2000 years ago and not in the beginning.

The book of Genesis needs a lot of work to be done on it for it to make complete sense, words like “the side of Adam”, need to be studied as they might make ethnic reference and not speak to the side of the human body and rib as the Hebrews obviously translated them from other written sources or spoken account and obviously misunderstood the meanings of the original words.

When we read words from the Bible we must think where those words originated from, are they from the Hebrews or are they from other languages from which the Hebrews translated the information into their own language. We must also think about what people wrote as things that happened and things that happen in real life because the fact that certain words are used to indicate that things happened in a certain way does not establish the fact that thing actually took place in the way described in the text, the text said things happened that way but we do not know that the text is accurate so we have to view the text within the context of reality and the way things are done in nature. Mary got pregnant but not for the man to whom she was engaged and it was said that that was so because of the will of god, does not mean that anything supernatural took place, the most natural and rational way to understand that is that it was the will of god that she got pregnant for another man who was favored by god to father that particular child. The words that were used to tell the story were chosen by men with their own motives that can be questioned.
Debate Round No. 1
Thorwald

Pro

Thorwald forfeited this round.
ansel

Con

ansel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Thorwald

Pro

Thorwald forfeited this round.
ansel

Con

ansel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Thorwald 4 years ago
Thorwald
Lenbenheart1,

I am not sure that I fully understand your posted comment. We have to follow the scriptures. Isaiah 44:6 has Jesus being the Lord of Hosts AND The Redeemer (Lamb of God), and part of The Godhead (both His Father and Himself are 'God', with His Father being The Lord God Almighty (to whom The Lord's Prayer refers).

Jesus was 'begotten' in the beginning, before the world was. When He 'took on flesh', He was still The Lord of Hosts. He was not changed in any way. He was basically 'The Lord of Hosts inside The Son of Man'. He was still part of The Godhead [GOD] per Isaiah 44:6. Since He was still 'God', Mary could NOT have been 'the mother of God'. She could only be 'the mother of The Son of Man'. After the death and resurrection of Christ, Jesus returned to His glory as The Lord of Hosts. This is why Jesus Christ was referred to as 'Emanuel' (God with us). Neither Angels nor mankind, can 'destroy' Jesus Christ as 'God' (spiritual part of Jesus Christ). They could only have an effect on His 'Son of Man' human body.
Posted by Lenbenheart1 4 years ago
Lenbenheart1
Consider this, (which I first heard from a friend of mine, adelpit346) ... suppose that GOD THE FATHER & THE HOLY SPIRIT {BOTH of Whom are clearly A SPIRIT} used the Messianic seed of David from Joseph, purified & suffused that seed with THE ETERNAL SPIRIT-WORD OF GOD, His Son, and then transferred that perfect seed to Mary/Miriam whose "egg" or seed was also purged and perfected BY GOD supernaturally, ... and all this WITHOUT any human intercourse, but entirely by THE AGENCY of THE HOLY SPIRIT. In other words: from beginning to end it was ENTIRELY A SUPERNATURAL CONCEPTION-implantation using the seed of the two chosen vessels WITHOUT human intercourse or intervention. In other words: Jesus/Yeshua was born of two truly human [AND SUPERNATURALLY PERFECTED] seeds, resulting in a perfect body and soul and Spirit. ... it's an interesting theory: and entirely feasible.
Posted by Thorwald 4 years ago
Thorwald
Deathbeforedishonour,

I have no idea what *Facepalm* means. Please explain. Thank you.
Posted by Thorwald 4 years ago
Thorwald
ansel,

For the scriptures to properly 'tie in', what I have written, is the only explanation that I can think of. I believe that the scriptures ARE TRUE. If I am wrong, then 'anything goes'. The scriptures are the only written word that has been passed down to us, that documents the history of our existence on earth from Adam & Eve to the death and resurrection of Christ. Either we believe it, or not. I do believe it.
Posted by Thorwald 4 years ago
Thorwald
ansel,

The 'words' found in scriptures came from God by way of His anointed (kings, priests, prophets, disciples, apostles). The accuracy of what is written, depends on the anointed's 'understanding' of what he/she heard. It also depends on how long a period of time elapsed before the words were finally written down, and were undoubtedly influenced by others (who may have also witnessed the 'message'), or responses from ministers who ran the churches at the time. People will often interpret what they see or hear, differently, based on their knowledge and experience. Some of the written word, may have been 'passed down' to the author from someone else, who may or may not be a witness to the actual 'event'.
Posted by ansel 4 years ago
ansel
When we read words from the Bible we must think where those words originated from, are they from the Hebrews are they from other languages from which the Hebrews translated the information into their own language. We must also think about what people wrote as things that happened and things that happen in real life because the fact that certain words are used to indicate that things happened in a certain way does not establish the fact that thing actually took place in the way described in the text, the text said things happened that way but we do not know that the text is accurate so we have to view the text within the context of reality and the way things are done in nature. Mary got pregnant but not for the man to whom she was engaged and it was said that that was so because of the will of god, does not mean that anything supernatural took place, the most natural and rational way to understand that is that it was the will of god that she got pregnant for another man who was favored by god to father that particular child. The words that were used to tell the story were chosen by men with their own motives that can be questioned.
Posted by Deathbeforedishonour 4 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
*Facepalm*
Posted by Thorwald 4 years ago
Thorwald
The Lord God Almighty, Angels and The Lord of Hosts, all resemble human beings.

In Genesis 1:26, it is written, "Let us (The Godhead) make man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS." In Genesis 6:2, we find that Angels mated with the daughters of man. Angels appeared on this earth many times, in the image of 'MAN'. Jesus Christ stated, "If you see me, you see The Father."

Which part do you not understand?
Posted by johnlubba 4 years ago
johnlubba
Are there any more way's this narrative can be twisted. I am sure there are plenty.
Posted by Deathbeforedishonour 4 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
God is spirit, not flesh. He does not have sperm cells, or any biological material.
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