The Instigator
THE_OPINIONATOR
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
dinokiller
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

The M1 Garand was better than -------

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
dinokiller
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/23/2010 Category: Technology
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,452 times Debate No: 13756
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (3)

 

THE_OPINIONATOR

Pro

The M1 Garand was the best rifle of its time. My opponent may pick another rifle that is from the same time period as the M1 Garand. The rifle doesn't have to be from the U.S it can be from any country. The rifle doesn't have to be the same caliber or specifications as the M1 Garand. My opponent and I may not vote for ourselves in this debate if we do the other person must get the better conduct vote.
dinokiller

Con

I say the Gewehr 43 is a better weapon compared to the M1 Garand.
But before i post my arguments, you have to come up with arguments why M1 Garand is good.

The spotlight is yours :P
Debate Round No. 1
THE_OPINIONATOR

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for accept[ting my challenge and wish you the best of luck.

specifications:
fires: 7.62 x 63 mm round
weight: 9.5 lb (4.31 kg) to 11.6 lb (5.3 kg)
length: 43.5 in (1,104.9 mm)
barrel length: 24 in (609.6 mm)
muzzle velocity: 2,800 ft/s (853 m/s)
effective range: 440 yd (402 m)
feed system: 8-round "en bloc" clip internal magazine
Action: Gas-operated, rotating bolt
sights: Aperture rear sight, barleycorn-type front sight

The M1 Garand was produced from 1936-1957 and was the first semi-automatic rifle to be issued to any nations infantry. The M1 Garand gave America an advantage because German, Italian and Japanese soldiers were armed with bolt action rifles. The M1 Garand is fairly simple to operate, you put a block clip in then when pressure is released on the cartridge the bolt slides forward. More info after my opponents rebutle.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
dinokiller

Con

Haha and so I thank back my opponent for such gracious respectation. (Putted a lot of effort in creating this sentence)

specifications:
fires: 7.92x57mm round
weight: 4.1 KG
length: 1130mm
barrel length: 546mm (21.5 inches)
muzzle velocity: 2328 ft/s (775 m/s)
effective range: 500m, 800m with scope
feed system: 10-round detachable box magazine
action: gas-operated
sights: iron sights, Zf42 optical crosshair sight

As you see from the specifications, the gewehr43 already defeated the M1 Garand in term of effectiveness.
Its lighter, has more rounds in a magazine and its effective at longer ranges, more then the M1 Garand does.
We continue from the usage and its con and pro and since im con, im gonna list all the cons of your weapon while putting my pros.

Arguments why M1 Garand isnt the best:
1. Actually 2 cons in 1 but its both because of the magazine clip so why not? The first con is that the magazine MUST be emptied by firing all 8 shots before you could eject the clip. This is bad as you may need more ammo for the coming time, you are forced to fire the shots left just to eject it. Even worse is when you are hiding and couldn't reload where upon firing a shot would cause attention. The second con is the sound that a gun makes while ejecting the magazine. It makes a chirping sound, warning your enemy that your gun is empty, something thats also bad for you.

2. The handguards are weak as we know. Front handguards has been known to break easily and the rear handguard has a bit more protection then the front, but its hard to replace.

3. Dirts could easily get stuck in the rifle, jamming the gun entirely, rendering it useless.

4. Its too heavy for a rifle and that presents a problem for the soldiers using this weapon.

My arguments why Gewehr43 is superior to your M1 Garand:
1. Its semi automatic and it has 10-round clips. On the plus side, you can eject the clip whenever you want!

2. All guns were made with scope rails, so they can become snipers if you attach a scope.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.panzergrenadier.net...
Debate Round No. 2
THE_OPINIONATOR

Pro

I have shot both the M1 and Gewehr and I have to say I do prefer the M1

"Actually 2 cons in 1 but its both because of the magazine clip so why not? The first con is that the magazine MUST be emptied by firing all 8 shots before you could eject the clip. This is bad as you may need more ammo for the coming time, you are forced to fire the shots left just to eject it."

1.This problem was later fixed with a button on the side that would force the bolt back and hold the clip in place for topping off the clip.

2.During WW11 most weapons were made to be produced quickly and the M1 was no different with over 6 million produced. With any weaponry you are to have these such problem even today with modern technology.

3.Most soldiers would keep the bolt shut on the M1 if it were not in use at the time so that they could prevent such things from happening. The M1 could easily be field striped if needed by any soldier to clean the rifle.

4. The rifle may have been heavy but the M1 was produced between 1936 and 1957 if the U.S saw a flaw in the rifle was too heavy it would have been replaced. You can't deny the power of the M1 and the fast loading that comes with it. The Japanese had taught there soldiers to listen to the alleged pinging sound to know when they were empty. The time the Japanese had to fire was 5 seconds or less in order to get a shot off.

There were two variant sniper rifles the M1C and M1D they were more widely used in Korea and Vietnam. The difference is the mounting the M1D was a simple one ring field mount and the M1C required drilling and taping. The M1C was officaly adopted in 1951 as the army's official sniper rifle. The M1C proved to be very effective in Vietnam.

The M1 was also semi-automatic and takes less time to load than the Gewehr does. I have fired both these weapons and although the M1 carrys less in a clip it is more powerful.

I ask the voters to look at the arguments and put yourself in a soldiers shoes and then vote PRO for "The Greatest Battle Implement Ever Devised" by George S. Patton

http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
dinokiller

Con

Very well, i refute your whole arguments.

1.This problem was later fixed with a button on the side that would force the bolt back and hold the clip in place for topping off the clip.

At least this is a flaw that was corrected AFTER the war. Even so, the flaw with the ping sound remains. This signal can still alert your enemy if you ever ran out of shots as it leaves you defenseless.

2.During WW11 most weapons were made to be produced quickly and the M1 was no different with over 6 million produced. With any weaponry you are to have these such problem even today with modern technology.

No, it doesnt as the M1 Garand is the only gun where the handguards are prone to breaking easily opposed to the Gewehr in WW2

3.Most soldiers would keep the bolt shut on the M1 if it were not in use at the time so that they could prevent such things from happening. The M1 could easily be field striped if needed by any soldier to clean the rifle.

Well, no one is stupid enough to jam his gun before a fight, but even so, what if your gun suddenly jams while middle in a firefight? Dirts can fly everywhere from explosions and mortar fires and if your gun is jammed, you are screwed.
You said field stripping is easily done, but no, you cannot field strip it easily. Dismantling it is easy, but how about if you put it all back together? Do you even know how many small parts are put together in the M1 Garand? This can cost you your life in battle.

4. The rifle may have been heavy but the M1 was produced between 1936 and 1957 if the U.S saw a flaw in the rifle was too heavy it would have been replaced. You can't deny the power of the M1 and the fast loading that comes with it. The Japanese had taught there soldiers to listen to the alleged pinging sound to know when they were empty. The time the Japanese had to fire was 5 seconds or less in order to get a shot off.

You already pointed the flaw behind the M1 Garand, the japanese knew the weakness of the M1 Garand.
And as i said in previous round, the Gewehr has defeated the M1 Garand in term of power and effectiveness.
The M1 Garand is both heavier and weaker compared to Gewehr so how is it best gun?

"There were two variant sniper rifles the M1C and M1D they were more widely used in Korea and Vietnam. The difference is the mounting the M1D was a simple one ring field mount and the M1C required drilling and taping. The M1C was officaly adopted in 1951 as the army's official sniper rifle. The M1C proved to be very effective in Vietnam.
The M1 was also semi-automatic and takes less time to load than the Gewehr does. I have fired both these weapons and although the M1 carrys less in a clip it is more powerful."

Gewehr43 could also be used as a sniper rifle except it already has a scope rail attached to it, saving the trouble of drilling and taping. If it was used in Vietnam, it would be very effective too. Also, maybe you are ignorant, but the Gewehr43 is ALSO a semi-automatic rifle though it takes a bit longer to reload, it compensates with the 10-round clip.

"I ask the voters to look at the arguments and put yourself in a soldiers shoes and then vote PRO for "The Greatest Battle Implement Ever Devised" by George S. Patton"

I find this sentence interesting. The term "The Greatest Battle Implement Eve Devised" means that a certain weapon is superior to any other weapons. Of course the tank already defeats the M1 Garand, but lets look at the rifles only. The Germans had many other weapons superior to your M1 Garand like Gewehr43, Sturmgewehr and MP40. So, is the M1 Garand superior to any other weapons? No, so sadly, George S. Patton was wrong.
I ask you to vote CON.

Source:
http://www.ehow.com...
http://www.suite101.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by THE_OPINIONATOR 6 years ago
THE_OPINIONATOR
ak-47
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
hm dunno, debate me on one?
Posted by Qynze 6 years ago
Qynze
What modern-day gun do you guys think is the best?

SIG SAUER!
Posted by Qynze 6 years ago
Qynze
Good statistics. You could, next time, possibly add a hypothetical situation in which your gun might be more useful than the other gun.
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
Hmm sure xD
Posted by THE_OPINIONATOR 6 years ago
THE_OPINIONATOR
Hmmm you kno your guns tell u wat scince I promised a patton debate with another guy how bout we have a whitch pistol is better debate hmm?
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
Walter is easy to get jammed :P
Posted by THE_OPINIONATOR 6 years ago
THE_OPINIONATOR
The only German gun I intend to own is a Walter P38 all others are crap
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
Hehe xD thx. Btw, how can you call the german guns crappy? xD
It was made crappy because of resistance movement, but if it wasnt sabotaged, it would stand a chance.
Posted by THE_OPINIONATOR 6 years ago
THE_OPINIONATOR
tht is it Dinokiller after my debate over is vidogames considerd art we shall have a debate over whitch general is better I will use General George S. Patton and you may use any general of your choosing!! Nice debate I still think the M1 Garand is a more superior rifle than that crapy German gun.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by ethopia619 6 years ago
ethopia619
THE_OPINIONATORdinokillerTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:16 
Vote Placed by Aaronroy 6 years ago
Aaronroy
THE_OPINIONATORdinokillerTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:43 
Vote Placed by Postup10101 6 years ago
Postup10101
THE_OPINIONATORdinokillerTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04