The Instigator
ob122
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
tvellalott
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points

The M16 is better than the AK47 (redo)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/6/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,943 times Debate No: 16911
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (21)
Votes (7)

 

ob122

Pro

Since my opponent couldnt meet the time limit of 24 hours, I had to remake the debate.

The M16 is better than the AK47. True, both have had many variants, but it all comes down to the originals. First of all, the amount of recoil the AK47 has when fired. The M16 has little recoil and excellent precision and accuracy. Second, the grenade launchers. The M16 has the M203. The AK, the GP-30. Now, the M203 can penetrate windows, take out groups of enemies, and even destroy bunkers. The GP-30 is mostly an enemy killer. The AK47 wasnt even an original design. It was taken form the German STG-44 used during WWII. The M-16 was purely original and revolutionary for its day. The M-16 vs AK-47 conflict has taken to the battlefield, most recently in Afghanistan, and the M-16 (US) has triumphed. So, the M16 is better than the AK-47.

As such, the scope of research will include variants and bullet calibers
tvellalott

Con

INTRODUCTION
I always used to switch my M4 Carbine for the AK47 in Counter Strike.
Moving on.

ARGUMENTS
Establishing the facts…
Before I begin, let it be known: The M16 is a lighter and more accurate gun. It has a faster rate of fire and much higher velocity. I am conceding those points right now, since they are statistical facts. This is not to say the AK47 is inaccurate, it’s just the M16 is around 35% better.
In terms of penetration the AK47 is twice as effective as the M16. I think this is probably a result of the age difference. The AK47 is after all, more than 10 years older than the M16.
With that said, here are the two reasons why the AK47 is still better.

Price
The AK47 is much cheaper to produce and this difference is greatly reflected in their price. My research indicates that the AK47 is at least half the price of an M16.
The M16 is certainly not twice as effective in any of the above factors, so if you want to equip your guerrilla army quickly with a kick arse assault rifle, you’re clearly going to go with the humble AK.
Unfortunately, my Google-fu wasn’t able to come up with production costs, but I imagine the AK47 probably costs around a third of the cost to produce as the very least. Here are some sources with commercial prices:
Bud’s Gun Store
AK47($361): http://www.budsgunshop.com...
M16(Most comparable gun, AR-15 $916): http://www.budsgunshop.com...
Impact Guns
AK47($339): http://www.impactguns.com...
M16(Most comparable gun, AR15 $679): http://www.impactguns.com...

Reliability
This is a well-established fact. The AK47 is among the most reliable assault rifles ever made, while the M16 was racked with design problems and requires routine and strenuous cleaning to keep it working at its full potential.


REBUTTALS
"M16 has little recoil and excellent precision and accuracy."
I concede this point. As I already added, the M16 is an excellent gun, but the AK47 is also very good.

"The AK47 wasnt even an original design. It was taken form the German STG-44 used during WWII. The M-16 was purely original and revolutionary for its day."
I think this is irrelevant.

"The M-16 vs AK-47 conflict has taken to the battlefield, most recently in Afghanistan, and the M-16 (US) has triumphed."
Evidence?

CONCLUSION
The M16 is a really excellent gun, while the AK47 is a somewhat excellent gun. Given the makers of the M16 had the AK47 to aspire to and beat, the difference in performance is to be expected. However, when it comes to price and reliability, the AK47 outclasses the M16. I think these are such important factors that the fact the AK47 is superior in them, makes it a better overall choice.

Debate Round No. 1
ob122

Pro

My opponent makes pretty good points. To answer his rebuttal, we need only to look at the weaponry of the US Army and Al-Qaeda. The average US Army infantryman uses the M4 Carbine (a variant of the M-16). In Al-Qaeda, they most commonly use the AK-47. Now, when i said that the M-16 vs AK-47 conflict had taken to the battlefield, I was using metaphorical symbolism. The M-16/M4 is for the US, and the AK47 is for Al-Qaeda. Now, with the liberation of Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan, The US has all but guaranteed a victory in Afghanistan. But, lets get back on track. First, let me give you a history of the M-16. In 1959, Armalite sold the rights of the AR-15 to Colt. It was adopted by the Air force in 1962, where it became popularly known as the M-16. The Army began producing the rifle in 1965, distributing them among the 1st Air Cavalry Division and the Republic of Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Afterwards, the Marines started to experiment with the rifle. Throughout the war, the M-16 was the standard rifle for all infantrymen. After the war, it became more popular among NATO forces. During the 1980s, the caliber used for the M-16, the 5.56x45mm, was standardized throughout NATO.

I leave my opponent to rebut
tvellalott

Con

INTRODUCTION
I’m just going to get straight into it.

ARGUMENTS
My opponent has conceded all my arguments. That’s nice…

REBUTTALS
RED HERRING: AMERICA VERSUS AL QUEDA
My opponent claims that the coalition force’s ‘victorious’ invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan demonstrates the superiority of the M16.

As my opponent said, modern forces use the M4 Carbine, which is not the M16. I would love to refer to the AK74, which is superior in every way to the AK47. However, this is not the resolution of this debate. A better ‘metaphorical symbolic’ battle would be Vietnam, where Vietcong forces commonly used the AK47 and American forces used the M16. That was not such a victory.

This entire argument is a red herring anyway. American forces don’t exclusively use the M4 Carbine for all their combat purposes. They have helicopters, jets, tanks, machine guns, rocket launchers and so on. There is no doubt America’s arsenal is superior in every way.

CONCLUSION
All my arguments still stand and my opponent has made no effort to rebutt them. It is too easy to interpret this as him conceding this debate.
Resolution Negated.
Debate Round No. 2
ob122

Pro

My opponent is right. The M4, not the M16, has been used in Iraq and Afghanistan. I will concede that. And i will concede the prices. But, let us make a comparison of both guns.

The M-16 has greater velocity, energy and range than the AK47. I will concede that the AK-47 has greater accuracy.
Now, lets look at the firepower of both weapons. An American soldier armed with an M-16 can carry 22 additional 30 round magazines that allows for an extra 660 rounds. A soldier with an AK can only carry 10 additional 30 round magazines, only allowing 300 extra rounds.

As for the reliability, i will concede that the AK-47 can function more easily.

But, vote Pro!
http://en.wikipedia.org...
tvellalott

Con

CONCLUSION
So there we have it folks; my opponent has conceded all arguments. He has also rehashed the information I provided in round one.
As I have shown, the AK47 is not a terrible gun. It is quite accurate and deadly. The M16 is simply more accurate and deadly. However, the AK47 makes up for the slightly poorer performance by being far cheaper and reliable.

Resolution Negated.
Debate Round No. 3
21 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Silver_Falcon 6 years ago
Silver_Falcon
"Yes and the M-16 proved to be better than the AK-47 in the Vietnam War."
I'd say its controversial claim. Even when keeping in mind, that lots of problems were caused just by labeling it "self-cleaning".
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
Lol. K.
Posted by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
I have response but I'm going to keep it to myself because I'm tired of checking on this debate to see if you've made a reply.
Posted by Haasenfeffor 6 years ago
Haasenfeffor
I always use the M16 in Counterstrike!
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
Gah, why are we even having this discussion? The title of the argument is "RED HERRING". I was obviously making a point about how irrelevant the Middle East conflict is in this debate.
Posted by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
And you also threw in the fact that the U.S. lost, why? Why would you refer to a conflict between the two rifles, where in the conflict, the gun you are arguing is better than the other was clearly outmatched?
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
Yes, I just said it was a better example of a conflict between the two guns. THAT'S IT.
Posted by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
Yes and the M-16 proved to be better than the AK-47 in the Vietnam War. To this day the army of Vietnam still uses captured U.S. weaponry.

You just mentioned that the Vietnam war was a war where one side largely used the AK-47 and the other the M-16 and made no attempt to draw a conclusion from it even though you included it in your argument?

No, I know that the Vietnam war wasn't a victory, but I know it wasn't due to any military failure.
Posted by tvellalott 6 years ago
tvellalott
No, I used the Vietnam war as an example of a conflict where the AK47 was used by one side and the M16 was used by the other, since that's what the debate is about. I then said "that was not such a victory". Would you like to debate that the Vietnam War was a victory?

The whole thing is irrelevant anyway. :P
Posted by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
You used the Vietnam War as an example of when the AK-47 outperformed the M-16 when in fact M-16 toting U.S. GIs all but slaughtered the Vietcong. Proof being the fact that the Vietcong were all bun annihilated after the Tet Offensive.

I can also show you photos of the Vietcong using captured M-16's in combat. I can't show you photos of U.S. GIs at the time using captured AK-47's from dead communist combatants, and lord knows there were plenty of them.

But don't worry, I'm still voting for you.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
ob122tvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: tv at least links abilities of the gun to why it is better.
Vote Placed by quarterexchange 6 years ago
quarterexchange
ob122tvellalottTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceeded most of his strongest arguments.
Vote Placed by Spartan 6 years ago
Spartan
ob122tvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: All my knowledge on these two weapons coming into this debate would be from Call of Duty, and Insurgency, but after reading this, impact is more important then precision. especially price.
Vote Placed by Koopin 6 years ago
Koopin
ob122tvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: I feel Tv beat his opponent in every category.
Vote Placed by Haasenfeffor 6 years ago
Haasenfeffor
ob122tvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: much etter arguements, better rebuttals, pro conceded that ak47 was more accurate even though con clearly stated that the m16 was more accurate... personally i think m16 is better...
Vote Placed by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
ob122tvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: This is not a votebomb, tvellalott was better in each category, especially the last two.
Vote Placed by BlackVoid 6 years ago
BlackVoid
ob122tvellalottTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's arguments went unanswered...