The Instigator
frankfurter50
Pro (for)
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The Contender
PowerPikachu21
Con (against)
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The Mandela effect is fake.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/3/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 452 times Debate No: 104763
Debate Rounds (5)
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frankfurter50

Pro

The Mandela effect is fake. Please debate me soon.
PowerPikachu21

Con

The burden of proof is shared.

The Mandela Effect is defined as "The Mandela effect is the observed phenomenon of people having clear memories of events that did not occur or misremembering significant events and facts.", gotten from this site: http://whatis.techtarget.com...


I'll be talking about a few popular examples of the Mandela Effect in Round 2, as well as why I think it happens.
Debate Round No. 1
frankfurter50

Pro

The Mandela effect is 100% hokum. In this round, I will establish what it is and why it's the stupidest thing ever.

The Mandela effect is a convenient way for idiots who remember things poorly to excuse their lack of knowledge and their bad memory. This method is ridiculous and insane. The idiot will state that they have crossed from a dimension where they were right to a dimension where they are wrong. It could be possible, so many people acknowledge this lazy idiocy as an actual scientific phenomenon.

Many times, the inaccurate memory is so subtle that it seems inconceivable that the idiot will not admit their stupidity. For instance, it's spelled febreze instead of febreeze. This isn't the kind of thing that would be a big deal, but these idiots say that they were right in the OTHER dimension, and that this one is wrong. It's like throwing a temper tantrum, but for grownups.

The sad truth is that their memories are simply inaccurate, and they didn't cross an interdimensional barrier, because nothing like that happens in real life. I await your next argument.
PowerPikachu21

Con

I thank my opponent for stating their case. Now, I'll get into different cases of the Mandele Effect, and my interpretation of how (some) our false memories come to be.


Examples:

Berenstain Bears is how it's spelled, but people remember Berenstein. Here's an article talking about it; http://mandelaeffect.com...

Darth Vader's quote is "No, I am your father", but people remember "Luke, I am your father". Here's the full scene; https://www.youtube.com...;[skip to 1:40]

It's spelled "Looney Tunes", but people remember "Looney Toons". Here's an article talking about it; http://mandelaeffect.com...

Those are the first 3 that came to mind. There's a lot more out there if you're willing to look up any more.


Explanation:

So why do we have these false memories? Could we be living in another dimension? Is the government hiding time machines?

Of course not! There's a simpler theory I came up with; perhaps we're just forgetful or don't pay attention. People's memories of details are simplistic. Take Looney Toons as an example; it's a cartoon, so it makes sense it'd be spelled like "toons". But it's not.

Conclusion:

I'll probably research a bit further as to why the Mandela effect happens. Again, Mandela Effect only refers to the memories; the time travel/dimension swap part was added by conspirists and I don't agree with their interpretation. But my opponent can't deny that this phenomenom exists.


Additional note; don't simply dismiss my arguments. Find evidence to refute them.
Debate Round No. 2
frankfurter50

Pro

I can explain every one of these claims, quite accurately, as a matter of fact. In all cases, they are brought about by the inept memory of a clod.

1. The "Berenstain Bears" thing is one of the stupidest and popular arguments for the Mandela effect. As with most cases, it deals with a subtle misspelling that, when brought up, confuses the mind and implants a false memory. This is not brought about by the crossing from one dimension to another, it is a tiny, almost imperceptible quirk. Imbeciles think that the name of these bears is "BerenSTEIN" with an E only because of the popularity of FRANKENSTEIN, who has been heavily popularized in modern media. Because of this, any small deviation from the normal spelling leaves people feeling berserk. The books are named after Stan and Jan BERENSTAIN, with an A, and their names can be spelled however the hell they want them to be spelled. Assuming that their names are spelled incorrectly is doing them a great injustice. The books have always been spelled BERENSTAIN, not BERENSTEIN, and we must accept that we simply never noticed it, and that it does not impact the quality of the books in any way.

2. Darth Vader's quote to Luke Skywalker in episode 5 of Star wars is exactly what you said it was. The quote is, in fact, "No, I am your father." But this is not due to the altering of reality. People remember this quote incorrectly because, shortly after the film came out, Star Wars fans spread the line like a virus until it became the most well remembered thing about the series, and now, due to our mass stupidity, a sharp call to reality disturbs our brains, so, to comfort ourselves, we say that there is a universe in which that line was the actual line. It never has been, though. People probably only put "Luke, I am your father" as the correct way because it sounds more dramatic, and so we know who Darth Vader is talking to. The line is actually how it is because, right before Darth Vader mutters the iconic line, Luke says something like "You killed my father!" So, in this case, it would make less sense for Vader to simply blurt out, "Luke, I am your father." Instead, he responds to Luke's statement, saying that HE is the father instead. Honestly, the difference doesn't matter. It means the same thing either way, and there are many, many parts of Star Wars that people don't remember, simply because of the huge universe that George Lucas created, so you can go on spouting that iconic line if you want to. It's just a small alteration from the script.

3. Everyone grew up watching "Looney Tunes". There has never been a show called "Looney Toons". This error probably dates back some time, because, of course, people are idiots, but this difference cannot be attributed to an alternate reality. The show was called Looney TUNES because, at the time of its creation, Warner Brothers was trying to compete with Disney's animated short series, "Merrie Melodies". Since its creation, the series has relied heavily on music, which can be seen in the episodes "One Froggy Evening" and "What's Opera, Doc?" among others. It functioned as a kind of satire of Hollywood musicals. Bugs bunny was based on Clark Gable. Although its reliance on music has decreased heavily over the years, the name remains the same, because any alteration could upset hundreds of fans. Your pathetic minds only think the title was spelled with two o's because you think of Looney Tunes as nothing more than a cheap cartoon. It's much more than that, it's a comment on American culture, and you're a fiend to blame your ignorance on an inter dimensional barrier.

We must keep in mind that stupidity has no valid excuses, and alternate dimensions are the stupidest excuse I've ever heard of. If such an event were to happen, the world would change much more than simply altering the spelling of something. Since there are no "BerenstEin bear" books or "Looney TOONS," There are only two possibilities. Either the entire human race has switched universes, which would probably be somewhat noticeable, or we're a group of stupid, moronic clods who don't know stuff. Seems pretty obvious to me.
PowerPikachu21

Con

Again, I also think the idea of two dimensions is a dumb idea. I even underlined that part in Round 2. Though I have to ask one question to make sure: Do you believe in people having memories of information or events that never existed? If not, then why is this so common? Though it seems you do agree with my view of the Mandela Effect.

Explanation, Part 2:

I'll take my time to expand on how easily fooled people's memories can be. This site goes into depth on the human memory: https://www.fastcompany.com...

Let's say I give someone this list: Flame, Ember, Burning, Hot, Smokey, Charred. Then, I give the same person another list; Earth, Water, Pony, Fire, Nature, Cloud, Fresh. Which word does both lists share? None, actually! But if I gave that test to a person, they'd say Fire is shared, even though it's not. The words on the 1st list are around that category, so it makes sense. A similar test was made by Dr Caroline Racine, on the link above (a bit below "FALSE MEMORIES CAN BE AS STRONG AS TRUE MEMORIES"). I'd consider this a lesser Mandela Effect, but you decide if you agree.

The human mind can be fooled easily. Pro even gave some examples for us on why people would have false memories of the 3 Mandela Effects I listed.



[Another disclaimer; 2/3 of my sources in Round 2 come from a site which supports the trans-dimensional theory. This is just a coincidence as it was one of the first links Google provided. My argument doesn't support that theory.]
Debate Round No. 3
frankfurter50

Pro

Well, this whole thing sorta ruins my day. I was planning on debating someone nutty who believed in the crazy dimensional thing. Now, we're just debating on the same side, kinda. Still, I'll try to finish this thing up as best I can.

I claim that The Mandela effect doesn't just apply to the sensation of an incorrect memory. It refers to the dimensional thing too. If the Mandela effect only refers to the sensation of an inaccurate memory, it should only be called a false memory. It should not be distinguished from somebody who doesn't remember things well, and it should not be used as an excuse for being inept.

If I was given those two lists, I wouldn't think they shared anything in common, because my memory is good. Some idiot might take that test, and they would fail. But not me, I'm smart. The effect of false memory varies as the intelligence of the person varies. I know a lot of trivia and small bits of facts that would help me to distinguish between a fake product spelling and a real product spelling. I've also seen products for a thousand times at the store, and I'm a language nut, all of which help me decide if anything has been altered.

Many people might actually know that the peanut butter is called Jif, or the air freshener is called Febreze, but, in the average Mandela effect video, the narrator will begin with something like, "Remember how you always used to eat JIFFY peanut butter as a kid and you'd spray FEBREEZE around?" Then he'll go on to show us the actual spellings. As you can see, the narrator provides us with the phony spelling first, so we receive a false memory. We think that we thought the fake spelling was right, when, in reality, we knew about the real spelling all along. This type of presentation is how the trick is done, and it can be deviously damaging to a person's psyche.

Anyhoo, that's all I have to say about it right now. People who have fake memories are either very stupid or they've been manipulated by others. I await your next argument.
PowerPikachu21

Con

Sorry you weren't expecting someone who doesn't believe in the trans-dimension theory. But now we're getting into some interesting territory: Is the trans-dimension theory a part of Mandela Effect? According to my first link [http://whatis.techtarget.com...], the Mandela Effect is merely a widely shared false memory. Various sites directly link the two, or just say Mandela Effect's its own thing.

To actually say Mandela Effect's merely a false memory, I'd point to the "effect" part. It likely refers to the fact that it's an effect on the brain. Though honestly, it's up to interpretation. I see the Mandela Effect as the effect of the human percieving information, then remembering it wrong.

Also, my opponent claims that whoever has a false memory is stupid. If you look at a few sites about the Effect, they'll probably say "many people". I can't find a number or percent, but it sounds widespread. So my opponent's basically calling many people (again, I don't have any numbers), stupid. First, perhaps that's true. It would explain why Mandela Effect's so common. Second, you can't really prove anyone's stupid, especially when they can look anything up (making quizzing pointless).


In short, you can't really disprove that the Mandela Effect is a thing. It's practically a truism, with so many people having false memories. Even my argument can be boiled down/strawmanned to "people are dumb". Also, I'm not sure if you can prove that we did cross dimensions (Mandela Effect doesn't count as solid evidence for the trans-dimension theory).
Debate Round No. 4
frankfurter50

Pro

The Mandela effect and the trans dimensional theory are intertwined. Without the trans dimensional theory, the Mandela effect is nothing more than a false memory. Something has to distinguish it from a normal false memory, so people have deduced a science fiction conspiracy theory to go along with it. In this way, it can act as a separate thing from a false memory, and give people with bad memories the excuse that their bad memory was true in another reality.

I claim that having a false memory is stupid. If a person can't remember what Darth Vader says, or how Looney Tunes is spelled, they are bad at memorizing things, and thus probably have a lower I.Q. than people who can recall things easily. they're also very stupid to believe in alternate realities. Anybody who does that is either crazy or trying to fudge their way out of embarrassment, and it's usually a combination of the two. I am calling many people stupid. I can do that, because even if a majority believes something, it is not always true. Majorities can be equally as stupid as minorities.

True, I'm sure anything could be solved with a Google search, but remember, Mandela effect situations use a sneaky trick. the fake memory and the real memory are so subtle that there can be an air of mystery about them. Don't you find it strange that EVERY Mandela effect has something to do with the misspelling of a name? This is because misspellings are subtle and people rarely ever notice them, and when a misspelling is brought to their attention they'll gasp in shock. Mandela effects would be much more astounding if they said that Al Gore had won the election or so on, but everybody knows this is not true, so nobody would have this false memory implanted into their head. In the age of modern technology, people can look things up easily, but misspellings can be tricky, so the majority believes it.

As for multiple dimensions, people may not be able to disprove it, but they can't prove it, either. These nuts have created a story that nobody can disprove, no matter how unlikely it may be. But nobody has a book from the other dimension where the berenstAin bears are the berenstEin bears, or a Star Wars clip where Darth Vader says "Luke, I am your father." They haven't brought anything with them from the other side, so, for now, the Mandela effect is absolute hokum in my book.
PowerPikachu21

Con

It's time for my closing rebuttal. Let's see what I can do.

Rebuttal:

"The Mandela effect and the trans dimensional theory are intertwined. Without the trans dimensional theory, the Mandela effect is nothing more than a false memory."

Not exactly. The Mandela Effect is simply a large group sharing a false memory. My first link agrees with this view.

"I claim that having a false memory is stupid. If a person can't remember what Darth Vader says, or how Looney Tunes is spelled, they are bad at memorizing things, and thus probably have a lower I.Q. than people who can recall things easily."

I feel like you're slowly going into insulting other people. Anyways, memory and beliefs can work strangely. If you keep telling yourself X is true, eventually you'll believe X is true, and always has been. This likely also plays a role in the Mandela Effect. (and one could say this is the "alternate dimension")

"True, I'm sure anything could be solved with a Google search, but remember, Mandela effect situations use a sneaky trick. the fake memory and the real memory are so subtle that there can be an air of mystery about them. Don't you find it strange that EVERY Mandela effect has something to do with the misspelling of a name? This is because misspellings are subtle and people rarely ever notice them, and when a misspelling is brought to their attention they'll gasp in shock."

I didn't say this since it didn't agree with my argument on humans not remembering subtle details, but do you know why it's called the Mandela Effect? It's named after Nelson Mandela, whom many believed died in prison in the 1980s. Turns out, he was still alive, being released from prison in 1990, and died in 2013. This is one of the bigger Mandela Effects, and not just a mere spelling error.

"As for multiple dimensions, people may not be able to disprove it, but they can't prove it, either. These nuts have created a story that nobody can disprove, no matter how unlikely it..."

At the end of my Round 4, I conceded that there's no evidence for the trans-dimension.

Conclusion:

It's undeniable that the Mandela Effect exists. But whether we should include the trans-dimension theory? I don't think we should. So who made the better arguments?
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 month ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Con by default.

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD.
************************************************************************
Posted by frankfurter50 1 month ago
frankfurter50
Yup, and I just reported your vote.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 1 month ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
@frankfurter50 You lost
Posted by frankfurter50 2 months ago
frankfurter50
I'm glad you're at lest being rational in your explanation, sir. I failed to notice that until now.
Posted by frankfurter50 2 months ago
frankfurter50
I'm glad you're at lest being rational in your explanation, sir. I failed to notice that until now.
Posted by arugula278 2 months ago
arugula278
If con doesn't absolutely ream pro, then god is dead
No votes have been placed for this debate.