The Marvel heroes would beat the DC heroes in a fight.
Round 2. Standard
Round 3. No New Arguments. Rebuttal and summarizing only.
To reign in this debate, I would like to focus on specifically the core members Marvel's Avengers and DC's Justice League.
CON does not have to accept this. If CON goes outside of the core members of these teams, then I will be justified in bringing X-Men and Marvel Knights into round three. I believe this alteration is both fair and ideal and urge CON to accept it.
A team of super-powered heroes needs three things to be successful: strength/firepower to take down or apprehend the enemy, intelligence to both know who the enemy is and what their plans are and to take down or apprehend the enemy in an effective way, and lastly, teamwork/leadership to know the assets of their teammates and work together as a unit.
I propose an initial comparison of Iron Man: Batman:: Thor: Superman:: Black Widow: Super Woman:: Hulk: Flash:: Captain America: Aquaman.
Hulk Smash! Thor calls down lightening from above. Iron Man blasts the enemy to kingdom come.
The core Marvel heroes have firepower.
Batman throws a disk - "Oh no," says the villain "You scratched me!". Superman prepares to leap - ugh no! Not the Kryptonite! Flash runs really really fast - except Iron Man is flying and his quick tiny fists are ineffective against Hulk and now Thor blasted him with an area attack.
DC heroes have lesser, and easily subverted, firepower.
Iron Man hacks into secure systems with greater skill and ingenuity than Batman, who is typically seen merely pushing a few buttons on his fancy computer.
Who needs a Lasso of Truth when you have Black Widow? Sure Wonder Woman can find the truth from one minion, but Black Widow can track down the real threats, trick them into revealing their secrets and then trick them into acting according to her schemes.
The Avengers are a team that work through tensions and fight and figure it out. All for all, they know each other well and have got each other's backs. The Justice League is a roster.
And because I said I would compare them, Captain America trumps Aquaman. Both are out of their element (time, land) and both are generally overshadowed by the abilities of their teammates.
However, Captain America holds the Avengers together, making him more useful that Aquaman.
Black Widow learns Bat Man always carries Kryptonite.
Iron Man hacks into the bat cave, blasts Batman, takes the Kryptonite and sends a distress call to Superman.
Thor, when Superman shows up, subdues him while the Kryptonite takes effect.
Captain America, during all this hullabuloo, leads an attack on the Justice Leagues base with..
Hulk who is the perfect rampaging distraction creator. This would prevent DC from coming to the aid of Superman and Batman. And, once Superman and Batman are secure, the rest of the Avengers would be free to join the frontal attack and overpower the leaderless and power-player-less DC heroes.
And you can't flip this plan against the Marvel heroes because the Avengers don't use a standard base of operations and their power players don't have an extreme aversion to a green rock.
As you can see, the core Marvel heroes have what is takes to take down the core DC heroes. I also believe the auxiliary Marvel heroes would have success, especially X-Men, but, as I hope CON will agree, let's contain this debate to the core heroes.
I look forward to your response.
I will also use the core characters. However, there are some major core characters, such as Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern, that my opponent has ignored. These are key characters. I will use the following line-up:
Superman is susceptible to kryptonite. That is evident. However, that does not mean that he is automatically out of the game. Batman - who is actually Bruce Wayne, a billionaire playboy - and the Flash - who is actually Barry Allen, a police scientist - are the geniuses of DC. Flash is the fastest man alive, obviously. In some versions, he can run as fast as light. Thor uses the power of lightning. However, lightning is not as fast as light. Flash has more skill and agility, while Thor has more power. Thor can be eliminated. It will be a difficult and long fight, but Thor will lose.
Iron Man can find and harness kryptonite, yes, but it will not necessarily work. If Iron Man confronts Superman with kryptonite, Superman will see this coming from miles away. He will be ready. Even if Superman himself cannot find it out, Batman has intel. Batman can provide Superman this information, thus preparing him. Superman is not eliminated. He can stand. He will crush Iron Man.
Aquaman is underrated. He can speak to fish, yes, but that is not all he can do. He is the king of the oceans. He can control all water and aquatic life. He himself is rather strong too, in fact. Hulk gets stronger as he becomes angrier, but Aquaman does not have that restriction. He can just fight with all his power. Aquaman cannot eliminate Hulk, but he can contain him.
Wolverine; he regenerates quickly and is virtually immortal. However, he is not going to survive being thrown into the sun. He cannot regenerate that quickly. Superman and/or Green Lantern would simply have to contain him and eventually hurl him into the sun.
Wonder Woman vs. Black Widow. This is a no-brainer. Wonder Woman is of Amazonian descent. She is, essentially, a God. Black Widow is just a S.H.I.E.L.D agent. This is a rather quick fight.
Spiderman. He can shoot webs out of his wrists and he is as strong as a spider, in proportion to the human body. However, this does not compare to the other DC heroes. In fact, he is one of the weaker individuals in this battle. He can be eliminated quickly.
Martian Manhunter; in many ways more powerful than Superman. Captain America; a super soldier. This is a piece of cake for Martian Manhunter. Captain America will be crushed.
DC has the intel, the firepower, and the committment to take down the Avengers. In the comics, Superman and Batman, for example, are very different; personality, strategy, etc. However, they put aside their differences and work together. The same is with Flash and Green Lantern. The Justice League will defeat the Avengers. It will not be an easy fight, but it will be done.
This argument is short and limited, but I could not do more. I have limited time to do this. I will go on vacation soon and I have obligations to take care of.
First I will go through my core arguments, then my plan, then refute the CON's pairings.
Strength – At best CON has shown DC heroes could match Marvel, and to do that he had them matched up to suit his interests. Yet with no plan for how he would force the pairings in his favor, his points are irrelevant.
Intelligence – The intelligence of Batman and Flash are not immediately applicable in a fight like Iron Man's hacking skills are. Even if you believe CON, he has only shown DC heroes to have matching IQ scores, not surpassing. In addition, intelligence is more than book smarts. Covert intelligence, Black Widow's strong suit, is where Marvel overtakes DC.
Teamwork – To reiterate, DC is a roster of various one-trick ponies that don't know how to work together, nor even relate to each other due to extremely different backgrounds. Of my Marvel line up, the one alien is very protective of Earth and has become accustomed to humans by living among them for a time.
Plan – CON's only attack on my plan is that Superman would see it coming, because apparently Superman is omniscient. As I will show in the following refutation, there is more than one way to take down Superman.
Superman is highly susceptible to magic and psychic attack. CON claims that Superman will see the Kryptonite coming from miles away. Personally I don't buy that he would automatically be able to prevent the Kryptonite from reaching him. Even if you think Superman is that vigilant, he is still prone to magic and psychic attacks.
Spider-man was used as a straw man. I will not use this flimsy hero assigned to me by CON. Instead I called upon X-Men leader Professor X.
Flash moving faster than light is an obscure translation of his abilities. You have opened up a door you'll wish you hadn't. In X-Men 2, Professor X through the machine Cerebro is shown to have the ability to kill massive groups of people at once. If you are allowing yourself to use the version of Flash that can move faster than light, you have also allowed me to use the version of Professor X that could kill your entire line up from the comfort of his mansion.
This isn't a punch for punch fight. They aren't locked in a room and told to duke it out. For example, Black Widow and Wonder Woman aren't locked in a room together. Yes, Wonder Woman has strength, but she is a naïve princess that doesn't understand Earth. If Black Widow were ever to be locked in a room with Wonder Woman, it would be because Black Widow wanted to trick information out of Wonder Woman while Wonder Woman believed herself to have the upper hand.
Another straw man is Martian Manhunter versus Captain America. These heroes don't even play the same role on their respective teams. Captain America is a leader and moral booster. Martian Manhunter is a cannon. Captain America would lead a team and come up with strategies, not directly confront Martian Manhunter.
This fight, beyond strength, requires intelligence and teamwork, which I have shown the Marvel heroes to have.
CON has set up his arguments as a series of straw man fallacies. I have approached this debate by looking at the big picture. A DC vs. Marvel fight would play out more like a chess game and less like a cage fight.
CON has not sufficiently countered neither my core arguments, nor my plan. In addition, CON has not provided a counter plan. While many of your gut reactions will be that DC has more firepower, after reading my argumentation you should understand that firepower isn't enough. Marvel wins. Vote PRO!
As a side note, though I do not attach it to my core argumentation, Marvel heroes would win by sheer number.
"At best CON has shown DC heroes could match Marvel, and to do that he had them matched up to suit his interests. Yet with no plan for how he would force the pairings in his favor, his points are irrelevant." I assembled core members of the DC team that my opponent has ignored. I made a logical argument that shows how DC could defeat Marvel.
"The intelligence of Batman and Flash are not immediately applicable in a fight like Iron Man's hacking skills are. Even if you believe CON, he has only shown DC heroes to have matching IQ scores, not surpassing. In addition, intelligence is more than book smarts. Covert intelligence, Black Widow's strong suit, is where Marvel overtakes DC." Granted.
"To reiterate, DC is a roster of various one-trick ponies that don't know how to work together, nor even relate to each other due to extremely different backgrounds. Of my Marvel line up, the one alien is very protective of Earth and has become accustomed to humans by living among them for a time." My opponent has not made a motion to prove this. DC, in fact, is quite diverse, but the members of the Justice League always find a way to put aside their differences and work together for the common good. This can be seen in the comics as well as television.
"Superman is highly susceptible to magic and psychic attack. CON claims that Superman will see the Kryptonite coming from miles away. Personally I don't buy that he would automatically be able to prevent the Kryptonite from reaching him. Even if you think Superman is that vigilant, he is still prone to magic and psychic attacks." Flash or Green Lantern can protect and aid Superman in such a struggle.
"Spider-man was used as a straw man. I will not use this flimsy hero assigned to me by CON. Instead I called upon X-Men leader Professor X." That is an excellence choice.
"CON has set up his arguments as a series of straw man fallacies." My arguments are provable.
I believe this debate to be a sincere tie. Both sides are correct to some extent. Both sides have their points and their flaws. You should consider that when voting.
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