The Instigator
9spaceking
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

"The Mysterious Mare Do Well" is MLP's Worst Episode Yet

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/8/2015 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,362 times Debate No: 76065
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (20)
Votes (1)

 

9spaceking

Pro

Round one is acceptance.

The mysterious mare-do-well: http://mlp.wikia.com...

MLP: My Little Pony:Friendship is Magic.

"Yet": All the episodes up to "Make New Friends But Keep Discord" [including that episode].

This debate does not include shorts or movies from MLP.

We will argue over what makes an episode horrible and if there is a worse episode than The Mysterious Mare-do-Well. My opponent may try to defeat my generalized arguments, or he/she may choose an episode to argue against me within round one.
Good luck and have fun.
lannan13

Con

I accept.

You may begin.
Debate Round No. 1
9spaceking

Pro

There are many reasons why MMDW is MLP's worst episode. Let's start off with the fans' most heavy complaint. The character development. You see, the episode is about Rainbow Dash, an amazing pony, who goes off selflessly to save lives merely for fame [I'm pretty sure there isn't even money involved in here]. She did get a little arrogant, I admit, but then her friends go off pretending to be a "mare-do-well" who saves the day way before Rainbow Dash can even arrive at the scenes. But, this doesn't really do any good to Rainbow Dash's character. It's basically saying that she saves tons of lives, yet she can't wash in her glory and fame? The scenery did show her getting a little distracted, but ultimately she did save the pony in trouble.


The only times when she started failing was because of her friend's distractions with the new Mare Do Well. [And just how odd is that!] They didn't really give her much of a chance at all, each individual having stronger attributes than Dashie, so it was really no competition at all. And what were they supposed to teach? Being humble? Seriously? They showed off their skills to appear stronger to the crowd and to Dashie, isn't that a bit hypocritical? And they all resolved it "with friendship". Oh great. I think I'm going to face-palm whoever created this episode. It just simply doesn't work out; a life-saving hero can't be arrogant and showy? Bleh.

Well, that's actually pretty much it. It was because the lesson didn't really quite work out that made the episode fail and be the worst MLP episode ever made. Other episodes are bad in other ways, but most of them don't fail at justifying their lessons. However, in my opinion, MMDW really didn't manage its lesson. No comedy, no romance, some mystery (not a lot), and some suspence and action, but really no heart at core to move us or entertain us like other, much more well-done episodes.
lannan13

Con

My opponent isn't simply giving the episode the credit it reserves. There is a great ordeal of what occurs. For example we see that there is a construction site scene in the episode where Rainbow Dash cannot save everyone and MMDW saves everyone except the one person Rainbow Dash saves. We can see that the second time upon the Run away carriage we can see that Rainbow Dash is unable to save the child and MDW saves them and this is effective as it shows the sucess of MDW. Then when MDW is being recognized by the mayor of the city Rainbow Dash goes in hot persuit of MDW and this results in an almost Scooby Doo like chase scene, and what's not to lvoe about that? Her arrogance takes massive advantage of her here and this was a lession that she HAD to have learned.

There are several other canidates for episodes worse than MMDW. The first one I will purpose is Putting Your Hoof Down.


This is an episode that nearly meets my opponent's crieteria as we can see in this episode revolves around a normally quite Fluttershy and when she can't get her Bunny Angel to eat good food she desides to see Iron Will. Now, this is despite the fact that Fluttershy possess "The Stare" which pratically allows her to get others to calm down and listen to her. Note that this episode occurs after that one. We can see that Hasboro completely forgets that and this issue occurs when it could've easily have been solved. In turns into Fluttershy being a "Monster" and being rude and when Iron Will comes to collect payment she tells him off by just telling him no. Which normally does not get a guy the size of Iron Will to allow you to welch on a payment. In the end she goes back to normal and the problem escentially repeats itself with no actual resolve of the issue that started the episode.

Finially the next one that I would have to say that is also way worse than MMDW, though not as bad as the last was Boast Busters. This one here premiers Trixie the Great and Powerful. Instead of everyone leaving her show when she was boasting and showing off they stayed and heckled her. I mean this is a key way to feed Trixie's ego and her business that she's made. The only actual relivance of this show is that it revealed that Twilight's power was rising as she helped ward off an User Minor. We'd have to also see that this part wouldn't have occured if Snip and Snails didn't go and wake the User Minor and get it to come to Ponyville which, once again, is a very unlikely and unreasonable plot line that occured. We'd have to see here that this episode is just flat line terrible. Not to mention that the mustache joke gets old WAY to fast.

Debate Round No. 2
9spaceking

Pro

MMDW:
You think that the big problem of the controvercial lesson is not-so-bad. Yet, my points remain--was she truly arrogant herself? Or did the fame truly cause her arrogance? We can't really tell, and we can't pinpoint down whether her fan club, her fans, or the fact that she saved so many ponies led to her arrogance. Even so, it could be argued that Dashie simply grew nervous against the competition of a new "hero in town", and after being beaten the very first time, she was only beaten more and more time, arguably becoming more and more nervous. What's really weird is that it almost seems like her friends seem almost jealous of her, and only so grow to become a combined superhero to save the town. Isn't that arrogance in of itself? Dashie was also nearly totally out of character this episode, with arrogance never shown before. The inconsistency within her personality and the controvercial message, MMDW remains the worst episode of MLP yet.

Putting your hoof down:
-My opponent notes the inconsistency and the missing of the simple solution of "The Stare" upon the minotaur. But has Fluttershy ever faced such a powerful "animal" before? She has only faced down one single talking monster before, a dragon, and that was AFTER seeing all her friends fall one by one [Dragonshy]. Minotaur practically didn't harm her friends AT ALL. He was just promoting his lessons to "make people more assertive", which has the reverse effect on Fluttershy. The lesson works because it tells that people should not take things to the extreme, and by the end, Fluttershy was able to assert herself quite well without going insanely strong like Minotaur first dramatically displayed. There is no inconsistency in this episode, and it is much better than MMDW.

Boast Busters:
-My opponent's everywhere with this argument. My opponent tries to say that the episode only feeds to Trixie's ego and Twilight's power. But Trixie's ego isn't actually half-bad compared to Dashie's within MMDW. In addition, although Twilight's power is displayed, her smartness is as well with the milk bottle, with a very nice twist at the end with the Ursa MAJOR revealing. The episode is suspenceful, comedic with Snips and Snails' stupidity [their later SECOND involvement, and even joining of Sunset shimmer, truly displays how stupid they really are, which makes the scenery actually LIKELY]. As for the mustache joke, that's seriously irrelevant.

Also, Boast Busters opens up to one of my favorite episodes ever-- MAGIC DUEL!!! That episode was seriously amazing. Even if Boast Busters isn't even mediocre, it leads up to a VERY good episode. [That is also part of the reason why I was tempted, but did not choose the episode It's About Time. As pointless as it is, it actually gives good development to the top two episodes of MLP in my opinion, as well as ranked on by IMDB.]
lannan13

Con

MMDW
A lot of people can state that People go mad with power. It was obvious that her fame and popularity caused this, but we can see that this is more or less her character is arrogent. We can see that this episode had to occur as a lesson teacher. We all know that she's not as bad as Gilda, but still. Every video we've seen of Rainbow Dash we've seen her arrogent and dettermined to always get her way. It was obvious that when the competition arrived and she actually began to see the flaws of herself. A great highlight of this arrogence can actually be seen in the PMV Remember the Mane. opponent springs out that her friends were jealous of her, but if that was true then there would have been no way that many of those people would've been saved and if there was jealousy amongst many of the Main 5 we can see that there's no motive.

Rarity= She made the costume's but she wouldn't have wanted to do all that labor.
Fluttershy= She really didn't do anything, but fly over the damn scene.
Twilight= No Motivation, Dashie doesn't even compare on the knowledge factor as depicted in a later episode.
Pinkie Pie= Doesn't like it when people are sad or really anything but happy and it's obvious that this wouldn't please Dashie.

So we can see that there's no motivation here and it's unlikely that my opponent's theory is right.

Putting Your Hoof Down
My opponent is mistaken, I didn't say that she used "The Stare" on Iron Will, but other creatures. She did it on a Cockatoose in an earlier episode saving Twilight and the Cuttie Mark Crusaders, but that was in an earlier episode. We have all look at Fluttershy as sort of a push over and that this is absurded. This depicts Fluttershy as a villian in this episode and a near menace that can only rivial that of Gilda or probably worse. We know that people shouldn't be extreme, but this episode goes in a loop with solves nothing. It's obvious that Iron Will's exercise wasn't working in the first place, but we can still see that Iron Will corrution didn't really solve much as it's impossible to get someone of that size to allow you to welch on a payment. Try telling that to Al Capone to see what he says.

Boast Busters
Trixie's ego is way larger than that of Dashie's. In the episode Dashie's ego takes a hit after being embarrassed by Trixie. Snips and Snails are the worst side kicks possible in this series. It's obvious that their stupidity is clear. Though in Magic Duel the pairing makes sense. My opponent brings up to the lead in to Magi Duel, but we can still see even if Twilight didn't save the town from the Usa Minor we can still see that Trixie would need to repair her ego and the same thing would've happend though to probably AJ or Dashie instead and Ponyville or maybe even Cloud's Dale would've been enslaved by Trixie until Princess Celestia did something about it.
Debate Round No. 3
9spaceking

Pro

MMDW:
My opponent tries to point out that RD is arrogant and determined to get her way, that is true, but then he uses a PMV which was not part of the show. The show should have no effect from fan-made movies or shorts or whatever. Besides, it only further shows the episode's character inconsistency with the other episodes--flashback to episode one! Rainbow Dash is being tempted by the wonderbolts! Her loyalty is tested against herself! But she sticks with her friends. She's loyal to the people and to her friends. My point still stands, barely contested, because once again, the episode hardly justified a loyal pony suddenly turning much more arrogant than before, and secondly, even with such arrogance, we can't know for sure if the episode was really trying to teach us or not to be arrogant. They should have tried to outright state that heroes should be humble instead of arrogant, but MMDW fails at that. They raised Dashie up, then raised the Mysterious Mare-do-well up even further than her, and what result. Sure she grew less arrogant, but did anything really happen? Once again, I state this: character inconsistency. Lesson inconsistency. And even though my opponent did try to analyze the fact that the mane five didn't have any motivation other than correcting Dashie's errors, this is not really necessarily stressed in the episode. They displayed that they felt uncomfortable with Dashie being famous, Applejack with her not really wanting the fame and attention. It more or less feels to THEIR dislike rather than for Dash's good.

Putting the Hoof Down:
My opponent says that Fluttershy is displayed as a villain and this episode was just a loop. But was it really? Indeed, Fluttershy did seem to be the villain in a self-versus-self problem. But how is there a loop? There's clearly development in the episode, from being too shy, to being too harsh, then finally being just the right amount of strictness. She goes to both extremes before learning about just how hard she had to be on other people. She even felt sorry about how harsh she was and shut herself inside. There really is a good plot within this episode, and my opponent fails to refute this.

Boast Busters:
My opponent says that Trixie's ego was indeed larger than that of Dash. I suppose I must agree, because Trixie was a true villain while Dash was not. However, that only contributes to how this episode is so much more superior to MMDW. My episode does have some suspence and mystery, whoever, it doesn't have the comedy and the twisty solution effect of Boast Busters. In addition, I stress this--the ending with the Ursa Major was truly quite good and astonishing, while MMDW didn't really have an ending displaying whether or not Dashie really was no longer arrogant. In addition, my opponent only SUGGESTS that the "same thing would've happened" (which is confusing wording since it's hard to tell what he's referring to). The thing about Boast Busters is that Trixie really learns her lesson, as Twilight learns hers. My opponent also fails to refute that this episode develops into an incredible Magic Duel, one of my favorite episodes, due to the amount of power and corruption Trixie holds, but also the clever solution with a redemption by Trixie.

In conclusion, watchers and non-watchers of MLP, I've shown how MMDW is truly the worst episode of MLP ever. It's bad to start on because of its character inconsistency. It's bad to watch in the middle because of lesson inconsistency compared to other episodes that justify their lessons far better. It doesn't develop into any plot lines or have a basis (unlike the Time episode where even though nothing happens, it's funny and leads to the best two episodes of all time). MMDW is terrible; let's hope the developers don't make an episode like that again.
lannan13

Con

MMDW
Firsty I would like to clear up that I stated that it was "part of" the PMV, not the entire thing. Though if you do want to actually see the episode you could go here. (http://www.dailymotion.com...) My opponent goes on another loop on arrogence, but I have shown you last round that there's no valid reason for the rest of the Main 5 to be jealous nor arrogent towards Dashie. This is irrelivant and an absurd claim that must be thrown out, but I have already shown that this is impossible. Secondly, I showed in my last round and I will extend it across in this debate as we can see that the amount of compeition caused such a rivalry that brought out the worst in Dashie. This was shown that she cannot handle taking the back seat of attention and she's frustrated when she cannot get something accomplished as she's been seen several times failing and if it wasn't for MDW then people would've been severly hurt or even killed. So we can see that there's an important lession to be learned here against Jealousy and Arrogence which the episode clearly teaches. In the end we can see that this merits my opponent's definition of a good episode.

Putting the Hoof Down
I would like to first begin by showing that my opponent stated in the previous contention that Character inconsistency is bad for an episode and that's a HUGE highlight here in this episode as Fluttershy breaks character and becomes vile and mean which is a complete 180 turn from her character. This is already a key thing that I'm pointing out as it already shows BY MY OPPONENT'S STANDARDS, that this episode is already worse than MMWD. My opponent has dropped the whole "The Stare" argument showing that this entire episode could've been avoided if she'd just use "The Stare" on Angel. The thing is that we can clearly see that there is no gain on Fluttershy's part. She is still the same in the beginning as in the end. My opponent states that this was a great plot, but let's face it, her confrination with Iron WIll was a HUGE let down and unrealistic that's a major fail.

Boast Busters
My opponent gives a major concession here as he already admits that MMDW has way more suspence and mystery than this one, despite Boast Busters having some comedy we can see that it gets old way to quickly with the Mustache joke. This is a key thing as Old humor ruins everything. This combined with the fact that this episode is overly predictable we can see that this episode, once again, is worse than MMDW by my opponent's own standards. Trixie doesn't learn her lession as she comes back for revenge against Twilight and is simply back to her old tricks after the episode ends.

With that I have shown you that both of the episodes that I've brought up are way worse than MMDW by my opponent's standards and because of that I have to urge you to vote Con.

Thank You!
Debate Round No. 4
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by 9spaceking 1 year ago
9spaceking
congrats. It would seem that Putting your hoof down "seems" worst than Mare-do-well. I personally think the quality of both were approximately the same, though.
Posted by Nac 1 year ago
Nac
Continued:

Con's Arguments:

C1) MMDW has Positive Qualities: This point was conceded by Pro in R2 and R4.

C2) PYHD was Worse: Con posited the inconsistency of this episode in terms of continuity (The stare) and in terms of character (Fluttershy is inconsistent). The former went uncontested after Con provided concrete examples and the latter was corroborated by the former (i.e. the stare shows that Fluttershy did not need to become assertive). Pro seems to have fallen into Con's pitfall, failing to display why this lesson was necessary. The ending was also posited as terrible, with a total anticlimax, which Pro did not contest. Pro attempted to posit that the plot was good, but did not defend the ending.

C3) BB was Worse: Con displayed the issues with comedy and the plot's predictability, as well as supporting his assertion that Trixie did not learn her lesson, as she came back for revenge. The climax, however, went uncontested, as did the lead-in to a good episode, so this point is a draw.

Con maintained C1 and C2.

Verdict: Although Pro's episode was shown to remove RD from her character, PYHD has this problem in addition to an anticlimax. Therefore, Con wins.

S&G: Pro wins this point. The R3 defense of BB ended with a run-on sentence I could not make heads or tails of, and he could not spell Ursa correctly.
Posted by Nac 1 year ago
Nac
Arguments:

Disclaimer: Because both opponents made new arguments in the final round (Pro argued that the episode was unclear and should have been directly stated, Con stated that Boast Busters was predictable) and no rule was made barring it, I will consider these points as valid.

Burdens: Pro: Must prove their episode is the worst.
Con: Must prove there is a worse episode in existence.

Pro's Arguments:

C1) Friend's arrogance: Con refuted this by drawing their motives into question. This was addressed by Pro as something which should be addressed in the episode, which Con did not address (excluding a repeat of what he previously said, with the addition of calling this theory ludicrous). This leaves us with a key question: is the point regarding jealousy something which needed to be addressed? Because neither debater provided me an answer which supersedes the other, I will use this as a tiebreaker of sorts. If and only if this debate is close will this become a factor.

C2) Failed to Teach Lesson: This point was difficult to judge, but I must give it to Con. Pro never acknowledged the necessity of MDW in saving so many people, which dismantled his supporting point of the arrogance of creating MDW. Pro also conceded that RD was arrogant, meaning that she was the only arrogant pony in this scenario. Ergo, Con's position is completely feasible (though I would have encouraged Con to use the line "A real hero doesn't brag," from AJ to make this point less ambiguous).

C3) Inconsistency of Character: Con brought up the reason for RD's arrogance in this specific episode, but showed no evidence to contest the assertion that this appears to be confined to this episode. The PMV provided was contested by Pro as displaying an inconsistency with her character, which Con was silent on. Though Con repeatedly stated how Dash became so arrogant, he did not address why. Thus, this point stands.

Pro maintained C3) and has limited use of C1).
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I hate how they down play both Nightmare Moon and Sombra. They both could be really great villians, but they're played down way too much.
Posted by 9spaceking 1 year ago
9spaceking
The thing I hate about It's all about time is that it goes in a loop, Twilight is more out of character in All About Time than Rainbow in MMDW, and it's just plain stupid.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
LOL, anyways you'd have to say there's a MAJOR conspiracy theory behind that episode though. It's obvious that Princess Celestia declared war on Griffinstone and destroyed their little empire.
Posted by 9spaceking 1 year ago
9spaceking
lol, I do kind of ish agree with you; although if it weren't for Twilight's Kingdom part 1 and 2, It's All About Time would be the worst episode.
Posted by 9spaceking 1 year ago
9spaceking
..But I seriously doubt that Slice of Life is worse than MMDW, based on what I've seen so far.
Posted by 9spaceking 1 year ago
9spaceking
I am sorry, I have not watched it yet, and it is only airing here in two days. It would be unfair to add in a new episode that I haven't watched, wouldn't it?
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
Can I talk about Season 5 Episode 9?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Nac 1 year ago
Nac
9spacekinglannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in the comments.