The Instigator
imabench
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
Hawlucha
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The NFL should merge with the CFL (Canadian Football League) if it is looking to expand

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/2/2015 Category: Sports
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,654 times Debate No: 79257
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (3)

 

imabench

Pro

Trying out the 'no vote comments' option just to see how it goes.

3 rounds only so first round you can already accept and post counter arguments.
7k char limit

I believe that the if the NFL, the National Football League, wishes to add more franchises to itself in an attempt to increase revenue or expand its influence, than the best option for them to pursue would be to merge with the Canadian Football League, its neighbor to the north. My opponent will argue AGAINST a merger with the CFL, and instead argue for a DIFFERENT METHOD OF EXPANSION.

Con CANNOT argue that the NFL shouldn't be expanding in the first place.

Arguments for the resolution:

1) The NFL is looking to expand, and this would be the biggest and best way to do so.

Roger Goodell, current commissioner and Sith lord ruler of the NFL, has long been wanting to expand the NFL to a bigger audience, whether it be by putting a team in LA, London, and is also looking at Mexico, Brazil, and even Germany as well.

http://www.cbssports.com...
http://bleacherreport.com...
http://mweb.cbssports.com...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...

One of the many problems people cite while advocating against putting teams in places like London or Germany is the burden it places on players. During the regular season when teams would be flying back and forth over the Atlantic just to get to the games, the exhaustion from traveling such extensive distances could take its toll on players. Most NFL teams have half of their games at home and half of their games away from home, and for a team on the other side of the ocean, having to fly back and forth for almost entire days just to get to the game on time can be physically taxing.

Canada though does not have this distance issue. It is literally located just north of the US border, and some teams like Green Bay, Detroit, New England, New York, and Seattle are already so close to the northern border that it would be easier going to away games in Canada than it would in other parts of the United States itself. Merging with the CFL would satisfy the NFL's interest in expanding, while also avoiding the issues that would plague players if the NFL expanded overseas into Europe, or deep into South America.

2) The Infrastructure is already there.

Previously when the NFL created new teams, these organizations would have to be build from the ground up and completely from scratch, and this would be the case with fielding a team in London or even Mexico. However, this is not an issue with the CFL, because the Canadian Football league already has teams established and functioning, meaning the transition period needed to integrate these new teams into the NFL would be minimal, since teams in Canada already have front offices, fields, and even filled up player rosters. No other possible locations the NFL is looking to expand to has this luxury, giving a merger with the CFL a decisive advantage over building ones from scratch in completely new places.

3) The CFL has 9 teams, 8 of which could be of use to the NFL

Why does the CFL having 9 teams matter? The NFL is divided into two conferences; The NFC, and the AFC... Each Conference has four subdivisions based on geography as well, the North, South, East, and West, for a total of EIGHT different divisions. A merger with the CFL would bring UP TO 9 new teams into the NFL, but if the NFL only wanted to keep 8 of them, then it would mean that each division in both conference could get one new team as a result of the merger, without any one division having more teams than the other (Assuming that the NFL would decide to only annex 8 of the teams rather than all 9).

This is important because one of the biggest stumbling blocks in adding a single team to either LA or London is that it would cause there to be an imbalance in the number of teams in each division. A merger with the CFL though eliminates this potential imbalance since every division in every conference would be adding an already functioning franchise, rather than just one or two divisions having more teams than any other division, with the franchise being brand new and barely functioning.

A merger would also allow the NFL to jettison the absolute worst team in the CFL, while the second worst team could actually solve another vexing problem to the NFL:

4) This would solve the LA problem.

The NFL wants a team in Los Angeles and has wanted one for a while. If the NFL merges with the CFL, one of the worse teams in the league could easily be relocated to Los Angeles and solve this problem once and for all, essentially killing two birds with one stone. Moving an already existing franchise in the NFL to LA is frequently discussed as an option, but in terms of EXPANDING the NFL, merging with the CFL is the best way to solve the LA problem, since just adding a new franchise to LA would create a team imbalance within one of the conferences of the NFL, whereas a large merger with the CFL would avoid this.

5) Every other major sport in the US has teams in Canada.

MLB has the Toronto Blue Jays and used to have the Montreal Expos, The NBA has the Toronto Raptors, and the NHL has SEVEN teams located north of the border: The Toronto Maple Leafs, the Vancouver Canucks, The Montreal Canadians, Ottawa Senators, Edmonton Oilers, Calgary Flames, and the new Winnipeg Jets.... The NFL could easily expand its influence north of the border and incorporate new teams in Canada, since literally every other major sport in the US has successfully done the same thing, whereas expanding into London or Mexico is completely unfamiliar territory.

6) Hugely increase the potential fan base.

As big as London is (8.6 million people) incorporating teams in all of Canada (35 million people) would allow the NFL to drastically increase its fan base and influence in the world by merging with the CFL, rather than try to field only one or two additional teams in individual cities.

7) Possible rule changes.

When the NBA merged with the ABA in the 1970's, one of the conditions of the merger was that the new league would incorporate one of the ABA's rules (the three point shot) into the game as part of the de
Hawlucha

Con

I'll be brief as it is late (at the time of the argument against) but it piqued my interest.

Difference in codes

Gridiron football evolved from Rugby football, and like Rugby football Gridiron split into two variations: American and Canadian. Like wit the Rugby chasm that developed League and Union to the point they can no longer be, both Gridiron codes slowly developing independently to the point the likeability of a merger can be rendered moot.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

(I can source Wikipedia, right?)

National identity

While Canadians have not much to say about the US in either a positive or negative light the thought of the NFL consuming their own gridiron league and "Americanizing" it with oversaturation of pop-culture may be a turn-off for them. Canadians see their own version of football as some sort of independent sport, and the idea of mainstream American pop-culture and commercialism absorbing their league may be a turn-off for many.

http://www.bbc.com...

NFL should be exclusive to the US

The NFL- and the sport in general- has a history of completely failing to appeal other nations outside the continent with the American gridiron code of football. NFL Europa and the World Bowl are prime examples of how little the world outside the US cares about it, resulting in massive financial losses thrown in on renting Wembley Stadium. At most, the only success they have is in Germany but even then they only have at most 10 teams playing semi-professionally and the NFL aren't too keen on scouting them. Canadian football has always been seen as second-tier at best compared to the NFL and I doubt a merger would happen with the elitist mndset the NFL commitee have. That, and the popularity of other sports such as association football (soccer) and the aforementioned Rugby overshadow gridiron football in foreign lands, not to mention the over-commercialization that makes up for 50% of the games and the constant stop-start gameplay that extends a 60-minute game into a 3-hour broadcast (intermissions not included).



http://www.forbes.com...

http://business.time.com...

Regarding your rule of "Con CANNOT argue that the NFL shouldn't be expanding in the first place." I'm not saying NFL shouldn't expand per se, but that they have a history of looking into implementing gridiron football teams and culture where no one cares about it and failed horribly at it. They should stay at home and be looking at football hotbeds like San Antonio or no-man's land like the states of Maine and Alaska (but not Hawa'ii, that's too far) to expand their league. No rules broken there.

Seasons (temperature, not league)

The biggest flaw you overlooked are seasons. Due to their close proximity with the Arctic Canada during the winter is extremely frigid and if a merger DOES happen it is likeable that the Canada-based teams have to play during the cold season exposed to the snow per NFL regulations, risking the players to develop hypothermia and other health-risking symptoms. This is one of the main reasons (if not the only reason) why the CFL plays from Spring-to-Fall to avoid the extreme temperatures while playing in the much warmer climates during the summer.

Anyway, get ready! I'm passing the ball to you.
Debate Round No. 1
imabench

Pro

1) Difference in rules

"both Gridiron codes slowly developing independently to the point the likability of a merger can be rendered moot."

The rules for the NBA and the ABA were also substantially different from each other as both evolved in their own way when basketball was first invented, yet that still didn't stop both leagues from successfully merging with each other in the 1970's
http://www.remembertheaba.com...

- One major difference was that the ABA had the three-point shot and the NBA did not.
- During its first eight years, the ABA had a 30-second shot clock, as opposed to the NBA's 24-second shot clock.
- In the ABA's last season was that the ABA had no foul-out rule. When a player committed his sixth personal foul, he could stay in the game. However, subsequent fouls by that particular player resulted in two free throws plus possession of the ball for the opposing team

The ABA and NBA had different sets of rules and different styles of play but still merged fine with each other. Therefore a merger between the NFL and the CFL is not out of the question like you claim since other leagues experienced similar differences in gameplay but still worked out an agreement.

2) National Identity

"Canadians see their own version of football as some sort of independent sport, and the idea of mainstream American pop-culture and commercialism absorbing their league may be a turn-off for many."

You could also say that many Canadians could be excited to see a merger with the NFL where their teams will play against the best in the world and also be allowed to draft American players in the NFL draft, greatly increasing the skill level of those Canadian teams in the process. At this point its just speculation.

3) 'NFL should be exclusive to the US'

"NFL Europa and the World Bowl are prime examples of how little the world outside the US cares about it"

NFL games hosted in London routinely sell out every ticket to the stadium, sometimes even 8 months before the game begins
http://www.theguardian.com...

NFL Europe and the World Bowl folded partly because those teams had no talented players from the US or their home territory to draft from, meaning the level of talent in the players on these squads were so bad that the level of play lagged as a result and made the games just bad to watch... Canadian teams in the CFL though pick up players who were not drafted by the NFL, which gives Canadian teams some level of talent that European football teams lacked.

The fact that Canada itself HAS a functioning football league in itself implies that it is simply untrue that the rest of the world doesnt care about American football. Furthermore your argument could serve as a reason FOR the NFL merging with the CFL since Canada clearly showcases an interest in American football, therefore making a merger with that league more sensible than trying to expand to other foreign markets where such leagues do not exist.

"I doubt a merger would happen with the elitist mindset the NFL commitee have"

The NFL merged with the AFL in 1970 so your claim is an unsubstantiated opinion in addition to being flat out false, since the NFL has a history of being open to mergers.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

"The NFL should stay at home and be looking at football hotbeds like San Antonio or no-man's land like the states of Maine and Alaska"

But individually expanding into new places one or two places at a time causes the team imbalance in conference divisions that I stated before. If you add a team to LA or San Antonio, you would have to sort those new franchises into the league, which would cause some divisions to have more teams than other divisions and therefore create an imbalance in the league.

A merger with the CFL though would fix this problem while also allow the NFL to expand to a far larger, wider, and already existing audience than just putting one or two franchises in new cities and start them from scratch.

4) Seasons

"The CFL plays from Spring-to-Fall to avoid the extreme temperatures while playing in the much warmer climates during the summer. (The NFL on the other hand plays from Fall to Spring)"

There are ways to get around this predicament and still allow the merger to flourish. Canadian teams could play all of their away games at the time of the year when the winter in Canada is at its most frigid for example, playing all of their home games early in September and October and playing the rest of their games on the road when Winter really kicks in.

Another solution is that Canadian teams could invest in dome stadiums, which though expensive could be affordable since these Canadian teams would now be tapping into the massive revenue the NFL generates already. 2 teams already have dome stadiums, its possible that other stadiums could be converted to dome stadiums due to their small size, and also that the Canadian government would be interested in providing public funding for dome stadiums since their construction could create temporary jobs.

The NFL could also change its schedule for when its games are played. The NFL has time and time again extended the playing length of the schedule, the very first NFL season was only 13 games in length and ended in mid december
https://en.wikipedia.org...

In 2015 when the Buffalo Bills had a home game called off due to heavy snow, the game between them and the Jets was simply moved to Detroit where the game was played there. If during the regular season some Canadian teams experience too much snowfall to play their home games, those games can be moved to other locations to be played there. This could even be planned out before then if it becomes certain that the weather would not allow for the home games in Canada to be played.
http://mmqb.si.com...

The NFL could move its season to an earlier time of the year, it could very well create a hiatus during the heaviest times of winter to spare teams from the harsh winters

I extend all other uncontested arguments
Hawlucha

Con

The ABA and NBA had different sets of rules and different styles of play but still merged fine with each other.

There was no real merger, though. The ABA was in a financial crisis and the NBA simply absorbed them. The rules were adopted after because at the time fans favored the ABA's fast-paced games and rules over NBA's.

Therefore a merger between the NFL and the CFL is not out of the question like you claim since other leagues experienced similar differences in gameplay but still worked out an agreement.

Except the CFL isn't in dire need for a merger at the moment and even then with only 9 teams an an overall worth of less than 100 million they're doing fine.

You could also say that many Canadians could be excited to see a merger with the NFL where their teams will play against the best in the world

There are only two countries playing Gridiron at a professional level. Not necessarily the world. Misleading labeling.

and also be allowed to draft American players in the NFL draft, greatly increasing the skill level of those Canadian teams in the process.

Implying Canadian teams aren't as skilled as American teams. There has been a list of players from both sides of the code who jumped to the other.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

This statement is ludicrous as PRO implies Canadian teams aren't on the skill levels as the American teams.

NFL games hosted in London routinely sell out every ticket to the stadium, sometimes even 8 months before the game begins

That's just only one city, and even then it's only held once usually as an exhibition/preseason warm-up before the league commences.

NFL Europe and the World Bowl folded partly because those teams had no talented players from the US or their home territory to draft from.

You also forgot to mention the time differences, the different cost and taxing in European nations and other facotrs that lead to its demise. Lack of interest was one of them as what American wants to watch their football not played by the NFL, or worse, played in Europe?

Canadian teams in the CFL though pick up players who were not drafted by the NFL, which gives Canadian teams some level of talent that European football teams lacked.

And because of that the CFL is deemed a "second-rate" league that will never be on par with the NFL as it only harbors "rejects". Michael Sam strengthens that bias.

The fact that Canada itself HAS a functioning football league in itself implies that it is simply untrue that the rest of the world doesnt care about American football.

They don't care about Gridiron football. "American" football is simply the US variation of Gridiron. And Canada has 100+ years of gridiron culture since the late 1800s where it was developed from Rugby Union football and only took off as a professional sport in the 1920s, about as old as the American teams. That doesn't change the fact that the rest of the world has taken enough interest in gridiron to even pick it up let alone spend millions to have artificial pitches and invest in equipment that costs thousands per team. Gridiron in Canada flourished because it evolved there naturally, not because it was imposed. It's easy for gridiron to pick up in a country that's close to you rather than a country that's separated by sea.

Furthermore your argument could serve as a reason FOR the NFL merging with the CFL since Canada clearly showcases an interest in American football, therefore making a merger with that league more sensible than trying to expand to other foreign markets where such leagues do not exist.

An interest in American football doesn't necessarily mean a desire for both leagues (and codes) to merge. In fact, the CFL motto is This Is Our League (English) Notre ligue. Notre football. ("Our League. Our Football." in French).

http://www.trademarkia.com...

It shows the value Canadians have for their variation of football and I doubt the NFL merger will even bother implenting or adhering to half the rules in the CFL if a merger were to happen. The idea of teams playing Canadian code when in Canada or for every Canadian team to play CFL rules would create confusion.

A merger with the CFL though would fix this problem while also allow the NFL to expand to a far larger, wider, and already existing audience than just putting one or two franchises in new cities and start them from scratch.

But again there's already an existing audience in the US alone where there's no professional football team nearby or at all. Portland would love to have an NFL team. http://www.oregonlive.com...

Their soccer rivalry with Seattle makes headlines in the PNW region, surely having a pro-football team in Portland generate a massive fanbase and profit there while establishing a rivalry with the Seahawks, ensuing large amounts of profit there.

Canadian teams could play all of their away games at the time of the year when the winter in Canada is at its most frigid for example, playing all of their home games early in September and October and playing the rest of their games on the road when Winter really kicks in.

The Mid-Atlantic, New England and PNW also experience frigid weather from Dec-Feb. What about them? What would their scheduling be?

Another solution is that Canadian teams could invest in dome stadiums, which though expensive could be affordable since these Canadian teams would now be tapping into the massive revenue the NFL generates already. 2 teams already have dome stadiums, its possible that other stadiums could be converted to dome stadiums due to their small size, and also that the Canadian government would be interested in providing public funding for dome stadiums since their construction could create temporary jobs.

And who will pay for them anyway? The CFL teams? The richest teams in the CFL are worth 20x less than the Bills which are just worth under 900m. Stadium costs peak in the hundred millions anyway, and Canada's comparetively low population aren't going to fill the stadiums all the time, not if there can be only 8 home games per team.

In 2015 when the Buffalo Bills had a home game called off due to heavy snow, the game between them and the Jets was simply moved to Detroit where the game was played there. If during the regular season some Canadian teams experience too much snowfall to play their home games, those games can be moved to other locations to be played there. This could even be planned out before then if it becomes certain that the weather would not allow for the home games in Canada to be played.

The argument you were making was that Canadians would gladly accept the NFL merger. So how can they enjoy it if home games involving their teams are moved south of the border due to harsh weathers conflicting with the fields?

I skipped some arguments because the character limit was exceeded.
Debate Round No. 2
imabench

Pro

Alright we're in the final round of the debate so let me wrap this up. Many of con's responses were not even related to the original resolution so I went ahead and responded only to those that were:

1) Differences in play style between the NFL and the CFL

"The ABA was in a financial crisis and the NBA simply absorbed them"

The point still stands though that leagues under the same sport can merge even if both leagues have starkly different playing rules. The AFL and the NFL were also financially stabel when those merged into the NFL, so the same could also happen between the NFL and the CFL.

"Except the CFL isn't in dire need for a merger"

You don't need to be in dire need for a merger in order to be open to the idea of one... See previous point.

"I doubt the NFL merger will even bother implenting or adhering to half the rules in the CFL if a merger were to happen.""

One,you dont know that, and two, the NBA and the ABA literally did exactly that when they merged, so your claim suggesting otherwise is once again worthless.



"This statement is ludicrous as PRO implies Canadian teams aren't on the skill levels as the American teams."

Con 2 seconds later:

"And because of that the CFL is deemed a "second-rate" league that will never be on par with the NFL as it only harbors "rejects". Michael Sam strengthens that bias."

Seems that Con cannot remember what his opinion on the talent level of the CFL even is.



2) Balancing of divisions

"having a pro-football team in Portland generate a massive fanbase and profit there while establishing a rivalry with the Seahawks, ensuing large amounts of profit there."

But THAT WOULD CREATE UNBALANCED DIVISIONS. If you just create one or two teams in one or two places, that would cause for the divisions in the NFL to become unbalanced since all the teams in the NFl are currently evenly divided into 8 divisions of four teams each. Adding one or two more franchises would unbalance current divisions, but a merger with the CFL avoids this problem because then the NFL is bringing in enough teams to add to each division equally, preventing any imbalance from occurring.


3) Weather in Canada

"The Mid-Atlantic, New England and PNW also experience frigid weather from Dec-Feb. What about them? What would their scheduling be?"

That would be the job of the NFL and the CFL to work out. This isn't a Q&A session Con, you're supposed to be arguing for your side of the debate. The NFL and the CFL could agree to move the season to earlier in the year to avoid the winter months, schedule away games during the coldest parts of winter so that the Canadian teams would be in the US at the time, the NFL and the CFL along with the Canadian government could convert some stadiums into dome stadiums... There are numerous possibilities that can be pursued.

"And who will pay for them (dome stadiums) anyway? The CFL teams? The richest teams in the CFL are worth 20x less than the Bills which are just worth under 900m. Stadium costs peak in the hundred millions anyway"

The NFL makes BILLIONS of dollars annually. Chipping in a little of that income combined with the Canadian government pitching in would certainly be able to cover at least a majority of the expenses needed to make Canadian stadiums more hospitable during the winter months.

CFL stadiums usually average 20,000 to 40,000 people, making them very small compared to NFL stadiums which average 60,000 to 80,000, literally twice the size of CFL stadiums. The cost of converting some of those stadiums into dome stadiums would therefore not be as expensive as one would think, especially since some of the CFL teams already HAVE dome stadiums.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Plus, converting a small stadium into a dome stadium would be far less costly than building an entirely new stadium from scratch, which is important to remember because this solution doesn't propose building new stadiums, just upgrading already existing ones comparitively small than what we normally think of when we think of NFL stadiums.

=================================================================================

List of arguments con flat out dropped, ignored, or failed to defeat:

1 - Con didn't dispute that a CFL merger would allow the NFL to move one of the worse CFL teams to LA and solve the LA team issue

2 - Con fails to acknowledge that a CFL merger, unlike an expansion of 1 or 2 teams, avoids there being an imbalance of teams in NFL divisions

3 - Con drops the point that the CFL already has staff and stadiums in operation where expanding into new cities would require starting completely from scratch

4 - Con ignores how literally every other major sport in the US has teams located in Canada with no problems being caused by it

5 - Con fails to address that A CFL merger would bring CFL fans into the NFL fanbase, which would outnumber any potential number of fans brought in by just making new teams in one or two large cities, thus making the CFL merger idea preferable for the NFL in terms of trying to bring in a wider audience to the NFL.

6 - Con refuses to accept that other major leagues have been able to merge together despite differences in rules/play, meaning that the NFL and the CFL could do the same

7 - Con fails to adequately reason why the NFL should be limited to the US like he claimed in the first round when every other major sport in the US has teams in Canada

8 - Con fails to justify an alternative type of expansion for the NFL that should be pursued instead of a merger with the CFL

9 - There are numerous ways that the NFL-CFL merger can get around the issue of the season being during the frigid winter months, such as moving the season to earlier in the year, investing in dome stadiums, or having the Canadian teams play most of their away games during the harshest months of the winter.

10 - The NFL itself merged with the AFL in the 1970's, they could certainly and plausibly do the same with the CFL today.

==========================================================

It is for the reasons stated above that I affirm that the NFL should merge with the CFL if the NFL is looking to expand. Vote Pro.
Hawlucha

Con

Leagues under the same sport can merge even if both leagues have starkly different playing rules.

Basketball was never split into two variations unlike gridiron. CON argues basketball leagues can impose different rules as long as the original rules implemented by Naismith are obeyed. CON states gridiron is split into two forms and the CFL had a century's worth of control over the nation's variation of gridiron. CON argues league does not equate to sport.

The AFL and the NFL were also financially stabel when those merged into the NFL, so the same could also happen between the NFL and the CFL.

Merger was a gentleman's agreement between Lamar Hunt and Tex Shramm unbeknowst to AFL commissioner Al Davis. CON argues present day league bears NFL identity and will still do it even if a merger ever happens. CON questions NFL's preservation and acknowledging of Canadian teams' successes prior to merger.

The NBA and the ABA literally did exactly that when they merged, so your claim suggesting otherwise is once again worthless.

Ad hominem on PRO's part. Irrelevant.

Con cannot remember what his opinion on the talent level of the CFL even is.

PRO is twisting words. CON: "The CFL is deemed a "second-rate" league that will never be on par with the NFL" CON not making a personal opinion on the CFL, only reflecting American fans' consensus of Canada's take on gridiron.

UNBALANCED DIVISIONS. If you just create one or two teams in one or two places, that would cause for the divisions in the NFL to become unbalanced since all the teams in the NFl are currently evenly divided into 8 divisions of four teams each.

PRO stated the NFL at one time had 13 teams. CON argues NFL's small number was reason behind lack of scheduling conflict. CON also points out lack of round-robin scheduling (each team plays the other teams twice)

Adding one or two more franchises would unbalance current divisions, but merger with the CFL avoids problem because then NFL is bringing in enough teams to add to each division equally, preventing imbalance from occurring.

CON points out PRO's oversight of 9-team CFL without any extra teams would tally up to 41 teams in the league, creating imbalance and possibly BYEs favoring one conference.

The NFL and the CFL could agree to move the season to earlier in the year to avoid the winter months, schedule away games during the coldest parts of winter so that the Canadian teams would be in the US at the time

CON argues exposure to football in Canada should be continuous. Lack of football in Canadian grounds for 3 months would diminish interest and revenue.

The NFL and the CFL along with the Canadian government could convert some stadiums into dome stadiums... There are numerous possibilities that can be pursued.

CON provides 3rd-party contradiction

http://www.cbc.ca...

NFL makes BILLIONS $$$ annually. Chipping in a little of that income combined with Canadian government pitching in would certainly be able to cover majority of expenses needed to make Canadian stadiums more hospitable during winter months.

Government involvement would lead taxation and Canadians aren't quite happy with their own stadia prices: http://www.calgarysun.com...

NFL gets billions of revenue but still have to pay income tax to the US government alone, not to mention difference in value between USD and CDN.

http://www.sbnation.com...

Merger would've been more viable if NFL were still a tax-exempt corporation, hence keeping money.

CFL stadiums average 20K-40K, making them very small compared to NFL stadiums which average 60K-80K, literally twice the size of CFL stadiums. Cost of converting some of those stadiums into dome stadiums would therefore not be as expensive as one would think, especially since some of the CFL teams already HAVE dome stadiums.

CON argues expansion of stadia would not lead to higher attendance as PRO states desire to have Canadian teams play before/after winter, leading to financial losses during the merger.

Con didn't dispute merger would move worse CFL teams to LA; solve LA team issue

Currently the worst CFL team are the Ottawa RedBlacks which have just been founded in 2010. Highly unlikely the team would move to L.A. with little time in existence, especially if the team is based in a national capital.

Con fails to acknowledge merger avoids imbalance

PRO ignores possible imbalance comes from an odd-numbered team league swallowed by the NFL as stated before. No discussion of sacrificing or merger of teams.

Con drops the point that the CFL already has staff and stadiums in operation where expanding into new cities would require starting completely from scratch

PRO stated prior "Individually expanding into new places one or two places at a time causes the team imbalance in conference divisions that I stated before."

CFL only has two conferences serving as the league's de-facto divisions. League slowly expanding on its own nation at is own accord: http://www.vavel.com...

"If you add a team to LA or San Antonio, you would have to sort those new franchises into the league, which would cause some divisions to have more teams than other divisions and therefore create an imbalance in the league."

PRO waves away a domestic expansion and instead promotes an international merger with a league whose number of teams are roughly the same of a conference division. PRO fails to provide Canadian involvement in conference/divisions or if Canadian teams be their own conference.

Con ignores US leagues with Canadian teams

PRO fails to point out difference between individual teams of a different country and two leagues of two countries representing and administrating two different rules of gridiron respectively.

Con fails to address Canadian fanbase

PRO fails to provide American interest in CFL

Con refuses to accept other league mergers with different rules

CON argues leagues PRO mentioned were subjected to one nation.

Con fails to adequately reason NFL being domestic

PRO promotes Canadian fanbase growth at expense of domestic interest in NFL franchises.

Con fails to justify an alternative type of expansion for the NFL that should be pursued instead of a merger with the CFL

CON proposes NFL expansion from established minor league teams.

Numerous ways merger can get around issue of season during winter months, such as moving the season to earlier in the year, investing in dome stadiums, or having the Canadian teams play most of their away games during the harshest months of the winter.

PRO repeating words. Already stated.

NFL merged with AFL in 70's, could certainly and plausibly do the same with CFL today.

CON affirms merger unlikely due to international, financial, geographical, scheduling, cultural, and citizenship differences/conflicts.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Geogeer 1 year ago
Geogeer
But we prefer CFL style play. I find NFL boring to watch...
Posted by Hawlucha 1 year ago
Hawlucha
@birdlandmemories Funny you mention that, the Bills ended their agreement to play in Toronto at the Skydome:

http://www.buffalobills.com...

I do agree to a degree that Toronto- given their size and relevance- is the only Canadian city viable for an NFL franchise expansion or relocation, which is much safer and less intruding than Bench's proposal to merge two leagues with two different variations of football; however, there are issues to address. Having an NFL team in the same city as a CFL team may not be good for the latter as the former would steal their thunder in terms of popularity, as well as be seen as a cultural intruder challenging the more established CFL team. The venue may also be a problem with the possibility of having to share the same stadium. Right now the Argonauts are playing at BMO Field, which is the home of Toronto's Major League Soccer team. Given that gridiron football takes longer than soccer and their game play severely damages the surface of the field (which in BMO is grass, Poa pratensis to be more precise) Toronto FC would probably sue and demand reparations from the two gridiron teams to patch the grass since the soccer team is the main tenant and owner of the stadium while the Argonauts are just temporary and having an NFL team there would destroy the soil. I doubt the Skydome would allow more football games (sans international soccer matches) to be played in it as its owners probably want the stadium to be exclusively for baseball, hence why the Blue Jays are the only tenants in there starting this year.
Posted by birdlandmemories 1 year ago
birdlandmemories
The only city in Canada worthy of an NFL team is Toronto.
Posted by imabench 1 year ago
imabench
Open to the public.
Posted by asi14 1 year ago
asi14
for some reason i have the availability to accept the debate..
Posted by TubOLard 1 year ago
TubOLard
I agree with ColeTrain. The skill level is diluted when you keep expanding. It happened in Major League Baseball. Canadian women are about like American women, so the cheerleaders would not be any hotter. The only plus would be playing an NFC or AFC title game in sub zero weather in a place like Edmonton.
Posted by Hawlucha 1 year ago
Hawlucha
CFL rules differ from NFL rules and Canadians are too invested in their own form of gridiron to accept a merger between their league and the NFL. Also take in account of American superiority and how Canadians react to it, especially so if CFL teams have to play with NFL rules and breaks and whatnot.
Posted by ColeTrain 1 year ago
ColeTrain
It would be a cool idea. The only problem is the skill level would be diluted if they were merged. CFL teams aren't near as good as NFL teams. Would you propose an entire League Draft to even the teams?

(Adding one team is one thing, e.g Jacksonville Jaguars... but adding 8 or potentially 9 dilutes talent and basically gives those teams no chance to make the playoffs and/or have a winning season.)
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
CFL fields are too big
Posted by tajshar2k 1 year ago
tajshar2k
YES!!! This is so true! The CFL is basically the Development League. Nobody actually cares.
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