The Instigator
Truth_seeker
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points
The Contender
whitesworstnightmare
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The New Testament has Jewish roots

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Truth_seeker
Voting Style: Judge Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/17/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 703 times Debate No: 63375
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

Truth_seeker

Pro

I will attempt compare the New Testament with extrabiblical material such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and prove that the New Testament is Jewish in nature.

First Round Acceptance
whitesworstnightmare

Con

Call your Jesus and l call my Jesus so we could have a showdown! Its is useless to say the bible was written by Jews without identifying who the real Jews are! And it is useless to pray without identifying the real God you are praying to.The Bible clearly states that we will be deceived in the last days if you know what l mean.So as we have been deceived right now into praying to the wrong God!When we pray,,, our frequencies have been changed to channel our frequencies to darker forces of satan,hence you get bad results! What am I saying here?(For example)A telephone number! l give you John's phone number and you have faith indeed that it is John phone number !You call John asking for a job, he tells you jobs are unavailable.Why? Because l deceived you into believing that it is Johns number who hires people!When in fact its not the actual John you have been calling .The John you 've been calling is phony.He's Fake!

You need to take care my dear friends when praying! Who's number are you dialing?Are you dialing Jesus's correct number or you dialing a number you thought or have been told is Christ's phone number! l am getting closer to my point here!First lets find out who you have been praying too,is it the real Jesus Christ or you are one of those praying to the Jesus which even the atheists know he doesn't exist!(food for thought),.What is a Jew...A Jew is a decedent of Abraham and Jacob and is a Hebrew right!And where are they decedent from?l know most would say middle east or nation of Arabs. That is where you all get it wrong .Abraham Jacob David and Jesus are all Africans! The true children of Israel!Gods chosen people
Why do l say this because its in the bible!Which Jesus are you channeling your prayers to?ls it the white Jesus set up by western nations or the real black Jesus written in the bible who's real face has been hidden by the minorities to promote a white Jesus for white supremacy!
Debate Round No. 1
Truth_seeker

Pro

It's claimed by critics that the New Testament itself is a gentile work, however the Dead Sea Scrolls show similarities which would lead us to see the New Testament as Jewish.



As you can see, there are many similarities between the New Testament and the Essene's theology.

Jesus' lineage:

Jesus descended from David who belonged to the tribe of Judah (Matt. 1:1).

Clothing:



Jesus probably wore the tallit according to the Torah (Matt. 3:20-22).

Torah observance:

Jesus partook in the circumcision (Luke 2:21, Lev. 12:2-3) and redeemed (Luke 2:22, Num. 18:15). most likely had a bar mitzvah as he was almost the age of 13 (Luke 2:42 "42 And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.") The Mishnah relates to Jewish boys coming to the age of being responsible for their actions (m. Niddah 5:6; m. Megilla 4:6;m. `Abot 5:12). He was hailed as a rabbi among his followers (John 4:13, John 20:16) and even among the Pharisees (John 3:2). He acknowledged the authority of the Torah in Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

He said the Shema is the greatest commandment (Mark 12:28–30). He reguarly entered into the synagogue (Luke 4:16). He also followed the laws on purification according to Moses (Matt. 8:4, Lev. 14). He observed passover (John 2:13), feast of tabernacles (John 7:2,10), feast of dedication (John 10:22) and Rosh Hashannah (John 5:1).

Reverence for the Temple of Jerusalem:



He called it his father's house (Luke 2:49) and taught in the Temple (Luke 21:37). He even weeps over Jerusalem (Luke 19:39-20:8).

2 Samuel 7:11-14

"11 since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel, and have caused you to rest from all your enemies. Also the Lord tells you that He will make you a house. 12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men."

Luke 1:31-33

"And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David. He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end"

Essene commentary on the last days:

"The Lord declares to you that He will build you a House. I will raise up your seed after you. I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father and he shall be my son. He is the Branch of David who shall arise with the Interpreter of the Law to rule in Zion at the end of time. As it is written, I will raise up the tent of David that is fallen. That is to say, the fallen tent of David is he who shall arise to save Israel."

Raymond Brown, a commentator said this:

"We note that the Qumran interpretation takes out select lines from II Sam 7, just as Luke apparently did. It has shifted the focus of Nathan's promise from a continual line of kings to a single Davidic king, the messianic 'shoot' who will arise in the last days, even as Luke has applied the Samuel passage to Jesus. The 'forever' of both Qumran and Luke is, then, not an endless series of reigns by different kings, but an eschatological redemption. And so there is nothing distinctively Christian in Gabriel's words in vss. 32-33 of Luke, except that the expected Davidic Messiah has been identified with Jesus." (1)

John the Baptist's (Matt. 3) practice of baptism is actually a Jewish practice of purification. This is taken from the rule of the community:

"For it is through the spirit of true counsel concerning the ways of man that all his sins shall be expiated that he may contemplate the light of life. He shall be cleansed from all his sins by the spirit of holiness uniting him to His truth, and his iniquity shall be expiated by the spirit of uprightness and humility. And when his flesh is sprinkled with purifying water and sanctified by cleansing water, it shall be made clean by the humble submission of his soul to all the precepts of God (Rule of the Community [1QS] III)."

The Scrolls also tell of a man who "shall be plunged into the spirit of purification that he may instruct the upright in the knowledge of the Most High and teach the wisdom of the sons of heaven to the perfect of way. For God has chosen them for an everlasting Covenant and all the glory of Adam shall be theirs."

The Qumran scroll "Messianic Apocalyse" reads "Over the Meek will His Spirit hover" which parallels Matt. 3:16 "16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him."

It also states that this messianic figure would "heal the sick, resurrect the dead, and to the poor announce glad tidings."

Messianic Apocalypse" "The heavens and the earth will obey His Messiah, the sea and all that is in them."
Matt. 28:18 "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me"

A Qumran scroll from Cave 11 hails Melchizedek as Messiah and God who would sit in judgement and forgive sins.

Prayers and beautitudes:

Hymn 9: "I thank Thee, O Lord, for Thou has not abandoned the fatherless or despised the poor." Hymn 18: "Blessed art Thou, O my Lord, who hast given to Thy servant the knowledge of wisdom that he may comprehend Thy wonders in Thy abundant grace!"
Matthew 11:25: "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will"

Humility, blessing, and thanks were expressed both in the DSS and New Testament.

Some argue that the New Covenant is a Christian invention - not so. The Damascus document speaks of "the men who enter the New Covenant in the land of Damascus."

Holy Spirit:

"For Thou hast shed Thy Holy Spirit upon us, bringing upon us Thy blessings" (Heavenly Lights V).

John 4:14

"Those who drink of the water that I will give them will never be thirsty. The water that I will give will become in them a spring of water gushing up to eternal life"

"But Thou, O my God, hast put into my mouth

as it were rain for all those who thirst
and a fount of living waters which shall not fail.

When they are opened they shall not run dry" (1QH8; Hymn 14).

Matt. 5:43-45

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven"

"love all the sons of light, each according to his lot in God's design, and hate all the sons of darkness, each according to his guilt in God's vengeance" (1QS I).

This is taken from the following link:

http://www.auburn.edu...

I will explain more of the Jewish roots of the New Testament next round.

Sources:

1.
Raymond Brown, The Birth of the Messiah (Garden City, New York: Image Books), 1977, p. 311.
whitesworstnightmare

Con

whitesworstnightmare forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Truth_seeker

Pro

I rest my case
whitesworstnightmare

Con

whitesworstnightmare forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Truth_seeker

Pro

Rest my case
whitesworstnightmare

Con

whitesworstnightmare forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
whitesworstnightmare

Con

whitesworstnightmare forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
emilirose. What are they? And Jesus is not finished on the earth.
Posted by whitesworstnightmare 3 years ago
whitesworstnightmare
Call your Jesus and l call my Jesus so we could have a showdown! Its is useless to say the bible was written by Jews without identifying who the real Jews are! And it is useless to pray without identifying the real God you are praying to.The Bible clearly states that we will be deceived in the last days if you know what l mean.So as we have been deceived right now into praying to the wrong God!When we pray,,, our frequencies have been changed to channel our frequencies to darker forces of satan,hence you get bad results! What am I saying here?(For example)A telephone number! l give you John's phone number and you have faith indeed that it is John phone number !You call John asking for a job, he tells you jobs are unavailable.Why? Because l deceived you into believing that it is Johns number who hires people!When in fact its not the actual John you have been calling .The John you 've been calling is phony.He's Fake!

You need to take care my dear friends when praying! Who's number are you dialing?Are you dialing Jesus's correct number or you dialing a number you thought or have been told is Christ's phone number! l am getting closer to my point here!First lets find out who you have been praying too,is it the real Jesus Christ or you are one of those praying to the Jesus which even the atheists know he doesn't exist!(food for thought),.What is a Jew...A Jew is a decedent of Abraham and Jacob and is a Hebrew right!And where are they decedent from?l know most would say middle east or nation of Arabs. That is where you all get it wrong .Abraham Jacob David and Jesus are all Africans! The true children of Israel!Gods chosen people
Why do l say this because its in the bible!Which Jesus are you channeling your prayers to?ls it the white Jesus set up by western nations or the real black Jesus written in the bible who's real face has been hidden by the minorities to promote a white Jesus for white supremacy!
Posted by Emilrose 3 years ago
Emilrose
@cheyennebodie, indeed it does contradict them. For example, there's a number of personal qualifications and Jewish prophecies that Jesus did not fulfill.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
Like those foolish vows of poverty.It gets me that as soon as you say God wants people to be wealthy and healthy, you get hammered like if you said God hates you.Can't understand that at all. Of course it is thinking from a religious mind that God wants us to be poor , or at least not more than one shirt, or it will ruin us somehow spiritually. Thank God you folks never fell for that.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
emilirose. It does not contradict them, it explains them.Since the plan of redemption was a mystery hidden in God and his son, God sent Paul to explain in new covenant terms the message hidden in the Abrahamic covenant.The Abrahamic covenant brought Jesus into the world, the word became flesh, and the new covenant brought to light how and why.

Everything Jesus did can be found in that first covenant.Healing, raising from the dead,walking away from danger.Controlling the elements with words.He walked perfectly in it. Never sinned. All those laws that God gave were not for man to walk in. This Abraham God was talking to , there was no way for him to walk in that covenant perfectly. And the punishment for breaking that law was death.God said, " I klnow you broke that covenant, but kill a lamb, kill a goat.Just do not kill yourself. Until Jesus came, and he could walk in it and not break it.
God made his birth a virgin birth. Because all the blood in a person is from the man. And since God was his father, and not man, his blood was different ion the sense it did not have the corruption that man inherited from Adam.That is why God made him the lamb of God. The sacrifice for sin. His blood could wipe away sin for us, that we might be made righteous.

This is why we read and study the first covenant so much. That is our roots.We also see how the new covenant benefits the believers. Now, I am sorry to say, there has been a lot of religious foolishness and traditions made out of the new covenant. Just as there is a lot of foolish traditions made out of the first. Jesus ran into that his entire ministry.
Posted by Emilrose 3 years ago
Emilrose
It has "Jewish roots" in the respect it was written by Jews, but the essence of the New Testament (B'rit Hadasha) contradicts some important Jewish values and theological teachings.
Posted by BoggyDag 3 years ago
BoggyDag
Since Jesus was born to Jewish parents, this is a truism. Whoever argues against this must be very convinced of themselves.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
The new testament has its roots in the garden of Eden.God said he would send one that would put his heel on the devils neck. And Jesus did just that.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
Truth_seekerwhitesworstnightmareTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Pro. Con forfeited the last 3 rounds, which is rarely acceptable conduct in any debate setting. S&G - Pro. In the one round that Con did argue, his spelling was off and his grammar lacked proper spacing. For that, Pro wins this point. Arguments - Pro. Con failed to provide rebuttals to Pro's arguments, which left Pro standing unchallenged. Sources - Pro. Con failed to utilize sources to strengthen his arguments whereas Pro did. This is a clear 7-point win for Pro.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Truth_seekerwhitesworstnightmareTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture