The Instigator
debator9
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
13 Points

The New York Jets are a better team than the New York Giants.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2011 Category: Sports
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,578 times Debate No: 14717
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

debator9

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for agreeing to this debate. I will use this round to explain the rules.
Round 1= greeting and ground rules
Round 2= arguments
Round 3= Refutations and the second person asks questions
Round 4= First person answers question and than asks question. Second Person answers
Round 5= Summarize and leave voting issues
Danielle

Con

Many thanks to my opponent for beginning this debate.

Since this is just an introduction round, I'd like to begin by pointing out that I am a huge fan of both the New York Giants and New York Jets. This season I found myself a lot more excited about the Jets' program than the Giants. I also like Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan a lot more than Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin but I digress. Overall I think it's a very close match-up between these two teams, though just for fun and the sake of debate (I don't see a lot of sports debates and I wish I did) I decided to give it a shot. This is completely for fun -- good luck, Pro!
Debate Round No. 1
debator9

Pro

debator9 forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Considering this is a 5 round debate and my opponent seemed pretty set on a specific order, I'll allow him the opportunity to make the first argument despite the missed round.
Debate Round No. 2
debator9

Pro

I believe that the New York Jets are a better team than the New York Giants.
For this debate it is important to look at the wording, the word "are" implies the present tense. Therefore we must look at the very near past and the very near future.

Cont. 1: The Jets are more clutch of a team.
In the past season the Jets made it to the AFC championship, meanwhile the Giants did not make it into the playoffs. During the playoffs, and the regular season, the Jets have proved they can win important games. They also proved that they can be clutch on the road, setting a record for most overtime road wins, and they were 1 game away from having the most road wins in a season. This shows skill as playing in an away stadium is very tough. The Jets showed the most toughness after beating the Patriots and Colts in the playoffs. Both of these games they were supposed to lose, yet they showed they could play there best, when it mattered the most.

Cont. 2: The Jets are statistically a better team.
According to ESPN power ranking, after the regular season the Jets were 4 spots above the Giants at the end of the regular season (http://espn.go.com...). In addition the Jets led the Giants in almost every defensive category. And the most important category being point differential. That means that the Jets scored more point or let up less points then giants did. The Giants were at +45 and the Jets at +63. New York Times further notes that this is the most important statistic to determine the strength of a team (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com...). In fact the teams with the highest point differential have won the Superbowl for the past two years. These reasons state how the Jets are better.

Cont. 3: The Jets are only getting better.
This will be short, but I would like to point out how the quarterback is normally the most important position of a team. (see the Patriots). A good quarterback will elevate your team, while a bad quarterback will worsen your team. However, the Jets quarterback is only getting better. Therefore, as Sanchez progresses, so will the Jets.

For these reasons vote PRO.
Thanks.

I would like to thank my opponent for letting me do my speech here. This is my first debate and I forgot to enter the speech in on time. And as an adjustment the question/answers will be removed from there own round. Both of us can ask question in whatever round we choose. Thank you.
Danielle

Con

Thanks again, Pro.

-- Rebuttal --


Re: The Jets Are More of a Clutch Team


The Jets finished out the regular season at 11-5 compared to the Giants 10-6. In other words, the Jets only won one more game than the Giants. This is not a huge difference, especially because as Pro points out the Jets barely won a few of their games. They consecutively went into overtime against the Lions and Browns, and then just barely beat the Texans. It's important to note that none of these teams are by any means elite teams, so it's safe to say the Jets had barely scraped by many times throughout the season.

Let's look back to the early part of the season when both teams were 6-2. The Giants looked more impressive despite having the same record. They put up 41 points in back-to-back road victories over the Dallas Cowboys and Seattle Seahawks (so let's not down play their away game flare). They also scored at least 34 points in most of their games. Meanwhile, the Jets' victories were close to lesser teams such as Denver and Minnesota, and they were shut out by the Pack [1]. Essentially what happened to the Giants was that they choked to Philadelphia and blew a 19 point lead; their season was pretty much done after that. They couldn't bounce back, but that doesn't mean they're doomed for next season.

The reason the Giants didn't make the playoffs despite winning only one game less than the Jets (and more than the Seahawks who did make the playoffs) is because they play in a harder conference. I would even argue they play in a harder division except for the Cowboys' bad luck this season. The point here is this: what Pro calls resilience or "clutch" others might call downright lucky. Sanchez and Ryan will be the first to admit they've caught a few breaks. Regarding the Jets winning while playing away, sure it's a great accomplishment but by no means incredibly rare. The Patriots themselves lost the same amount of away games this season as the Jets - just two [2].

I'll conclude this point by noting that while the Patriots and the Colts are by no means shoddy organizations, the fact of the matter is that they are not the titans they once were - the Colts especially. The Patriots were the number one seed and deserve every bit of their success; however, after trading Moss and making some changes with their lines and defense you could tell this was more of a rebuilding season. Plus the Jets had beaten them earlier so everyone knew the hype and mental aspect would play an impact (plus Ryan's defense coaching). The Colts struggled early on and only managed to win ten games - same as the Giants.

2. Re: The Jets Are Statistically a Better Team.

The power rankings are not necessarily reliable. For instance, the Superbowl winning Packers are ranked as the #9 team on that list. The same ranking also puts the Chiefs ahead of the Giants which I think is just silly. There are other ways and statistics to compare the teams. Here are how the two rank in terms of placement in the NFL for:

-- Jets --

Points: 13th
Yards: 11th
Pass Yards: 22th
Rush Yards: 4th

-- Giants --

Points: 8th
Yards: 5th
Pass Yards: 10th
Rush Yards: 6th

As you can see, the Giants out-perform on offense except for rushing. However considering the age and health problems of Jets' back LaDainian Tomlinson, we can't expect him to consistently deliver whereas Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs will only get better and stronger. In fact the Giants already put up better rushing numbers in many ways. For instance Jacobs averages 5.6 yards per carry compared to Tomlinson, the Jets' best running back who averages just 4.2 [3, 4].

Morever, the same statistics pages can prove how the Giants' stats dominate on defense as well. For instance two Giants players had over 11 sacks (Umeniyora and Tuck) compared to the best player on the Jets getting just 5.

I also contend that Pro's statistics are outdated and therefore flawed. For instance he says that point differential is the most important statistic and notes the Giants as having a lesser PD than the Jets. However that blog was from November 2010 and the stats have surely changed since then.

3. Re: The Jets Are Only Getting Better


I agree that the QB is the backbone of any good team and that Mark Sanchez is improving. However just because he's improving doesn't mean he's on par with Eli Manning. Last season Manning completed 63% of passes compared to Sanchez's 54. Manning also has a better QB rating by 10 points [5, 6]. Manning also threw for more yards and TDs. With his Superbowl experience, the Giants are okay as far as the QB position going forward.

-- Conclusion --

What do the Jets have that the Giants lack? What Tom Coughlin lacks in gusto and bravado he makes up for with experience and consistency. The Giants have a coach on par with the Jets. I'd also argue that the Giants have better running backs. The Giants' receivers also put up better numbers. For instance Mario Manningham and Hakeem Nicks not only have more yards per reception but also higher long reception numbers than Santonio Holmes [3, 4]. While Braylon Edwards does gain a decent amount of yards, he doesn't get very far after the catch. Needless to say the Giants have a pretty strong offense.

While the Jets' defense is supposed to shine, the Giants have absolutely obliterated their opponents throughout the last season. In fact the Giants' defense had taken out 5 quarterbacks in 7 games [7]. Tony Romo was injured early and had to sit out the entire season thanks to the Giants. Their beat-downs were even more impressive considering they lost DE Mathias Kiwanuka who had a then team-high four sacks. In their first game without him, the Giants achieved a record high 10 sacks against the Bears [8].

With such an impressive offense and dominant defense, I don't see how the Jets look any better than the Giants going into the upcoming season. If anything some of their star power is aging while some of their key players are still green (Sanchez - arguably the most imortant player). On paper the Giants are the better team than the Jets; the Jets have definitely caught a lot of breaks though.

-- References --

[1] http://newyork.sbnation.com...
[2] http://espn.go.com...
[3] http://www.nfl.com...
[4] http://www.nfl.com...
[5] http://sports.yahoo.com...
[6] http://sports.yahoo.com...
[7] http://sportifi.com...
[8] http://www.longislandpress.com...

Debate Round No. 3
debator9

Pro

debator9 forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Unfortunately my opponent has missed another round. Please extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
debator9

Pro

debator9 forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Unfortunately my opponent was not able to come back and post a final round in time for this debate, so I'll just re-cap my arguments (none of which Pro responded to, and has therefore forfeited).

1. The Jets finished 11-6 compared to the Giants 10-5. While the Jets technically won 1 more game than the Giants, they barely beat several of their opponents in Overtime -- opponent's who are not by any means elite teams. Meanwhile, the Giants blew several big leads meaning they were closer to winning at least one more game. In short, the win ratio differential is so small, and there are so many other factors that it's not a point in favor of the Jets being a better team.

2. The Power rankings are not reliable. They have Green Bay as the number 9 ranked team, though clearly they beat out all other teams to become the Superbowl champions and thus #1 (or at least a lot higher than 9). Meanwhile, the Giants rank ahead of the Jets in terms of points, yards and pass yards. The Jets barely beat out the Giants in rush yards.

3. However, despite that small advantage the Giants overall have a big advantage with their run game. The best Jets back is LD Tomlinson who's getting older, and averages less yards per carry than Giants back Brandon Jacobs. Ahmad Brashaw of the Giants also puts up better numbers than the Jets' #2 back, S. Greene.

4. They say establishing the run game is the single most important aspect of an NFL football team. However I think arguably the only other comparable aspect is having a decent QB. The Giants' QB Eli Manning completed 10% more passes than the Jets' Sanchez, and also had a 10 point higher QB rating. Manning also threw for more yards and TDs than Sanchez. Manning is still young but has more experience than Sanchez, and has already won a Superbowl.

5. Though the Jets have a strong group of WRs, the Giants receivers simply put up better numbers. Mario Manningham and Hakeem Nicks not only have more yards per reception but also higher long reception numbers than Santonio Holmes. While Braylon Edwards does gain a decent amount of yards, he doesn't get very far after the catch.

6. Since I forgot to bring up Special Teams (my opponent didn't either) and it's too late to bring up any new arguments in the final round, I'll stick to comparing the defense. The Jets are supposed to be known for their defense; however, the Giants obliterated many QBs last season and became known for being exceptionally aggressive. After losing their #1 record-breaking defensive end, the Giants responded by sacking for a record of 10 times the following game and destroying QBs for several after that. Two Giants players also had over 11 sacks (Umeniyora and Tuck) compared to the best player on the Jets getting just 5.

In conclusion, I've proven that the Giants have a superior QB, running game and receiving game - at least in terms of stats. The Giants also have a dangerous and intimidating defense. Paired with an accomplished coach, I fail to see how the Jets have a significant advantage in any area. The Giants seem to consistently out-perform the Jets in every area (or at least the majority) just enough to barely scrape by as the superior team.

Thanks.

Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 6 years ago
Maikuru
debator9DanielleTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Multiple forfeits result in a full default to Con.
Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
debator9DanielleTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: After doing the research, I've convinced myself that on paper the Giants are technically the better team. However I'm still a fan of both. I gave myself the conduct point since Pro forfeited all but 1 round, and didn't respond to any of my arguments. I used more sources than Pro so that vote is self-explanatory. This was a fun debate though! Thanks Pro!