The Instigator
mattyasano.1
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Wallstreetatheist
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

The New york knicks are beter than the miami heat.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Wallstreetatheist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/9/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,472 times Debate No: 28002
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

mattyasano.1

Pro

The new york knicks are a better team oerall than the miami heat. i look for a great debate. may the best man win :)
Wallstreetatheist

Con

I accept. Please state your argument.
Debate Round No. 1
mattyasano.1

Pro

The new York knicks are a better team overall than the Miami heat. I look for a great debate. may the best man win :)

The knicks have had a great season. Even though the heat have won the championship last year there defense has been horrible. they are 15th in the league in steals compared to the knicks who are 3rd. Also rebounding wise the heat have been horrible and even though the knicks aren't much better the heat are a bigger team. The knicks have a free throw percentage than the heat which is crucial in winning games.
Wallstreetatheist

Con

Pro has the burden of proof to demonstrate that the New York* Knicks* are better* than the Miami* Heat*. So far, all we have heard from Pro is assertions about the athletic quality of the New York Knicks, describing aspects of the team that might have a slight edge over the Miami Heat. There are no sources to substantiate these claims and no examples as to how New York may be superior.

I'll mention the most important aspect of winning basketball games: points. The team with the greatest number of points wins the basketball game. In points per game, the Miami Heat outperform the New York Knicks on average by 1 point in a 103.6 to 102.6 PPG. [1, 2]

[1] http://www.nba.com...
[2] http://www.nba.com...
Debate Round No. 2
mattyasano.1

Pro

So my opponent says that points win games. Golden state from the 2010 season was averaging 103.2 points but their record was 36-46. Defense wins games. This season the heat are allowing 99.5 points per game while the knicks are averaging 95.3. So if "points win games" my friend how come the heat are 14-6 and the knicks are 16-5? The heat lost to the washington wizards, by far the wost team in the nba. To this day their 3-16. How could the heat even go to the finals if they cant beat the wizards? Also the knicks and heat have played twice this season and the knicks bet the heat on the road and at home. One victory came with their best player Carmelo Anthony injured for that game but the knicks still beat the heat by 20. And the reason they lost was because of defense not points. the knicks had 18 threes when they faced miami 5 days ago.

Good luck
Wallstreetatheist

Con

Pro has made statistical claims that are unsourced, and should thus be dismissed until proof of authenticity is provided.

Pro said that the Heat lost to the Wizards, which is partially true, yet irrelevant in the grand scheme of the NBA, because the most recent game the Miami Heat bested the Washington Wizards 102 - 72. That is a 30-point margin. Had there been a sense of urgency on the night the Heat lost to the Wizards 105-101, the outcome would have been wholly different. [1]

My opponent also told a blatant falsehood by referring to the Washington Wizards as "by far the worst team in the nba." The Toronto Raptors have had a worse season than the Wizards by a two-game margin. [2]

My opponent claims that defense is what wins games. I don't fully agree to this analysis, but suppose we were to assume that it were true for the sake of argument. Positing that defense wins games, the Miami Heat are still the superior team. According to the statistics, Miami is ranked 16th best defense, which contrasts with New York's ranking: 20th. [3]

In a power ranking of the NBA's best one-on-one defenders, two of the Heat's players demonstrated strong performances: Shane Battier at 9th place and LeBron James at 2nd. The only Knicks player on the list was Iman Shumpert at 10th. [4] The Bleacher Report's Dan Favale had this to say about Heat small forward LeBron James' defensive prowess: "The small forward is both explosive and versatile enough to defend every position on the floor and excel while doing so. And while he lights up the defensive stat lines by snagging 1.7 steals and swatting away nearly one block per contest, it's his impervious demeanor that truly makes him a great man-to-man defender. Despite being one of the most powerful athletes in the game, James sacrifices nothing in swiftness. He can navigate the floor while defending with his back to the basket extremely well, and he has the hands and timing necessary to make an opponent pay if they do manage to pass him. It simply doesn't get much better than James here. But then again, it never does." [5]


So, to recap:

According to the statistics, the Heat score more points than Knicks, have a better team defense than the Knicks, have better one-on-one defensive players than the Knicks, and have better fans than the Knicks.


[1] http://www.nba.com...
[2] http://www.nba.com...
[3] http://hoopdata.com...
[4] http://bleacherreport.com...
[5] http://bleacherreport.com...
Debate Round No. 3
mattyasano.1

Pro

Well lets look at your argument. the raptors worse than the wizards?? the wizards are 3-18 while the raptors are 5-19. The raptors have the better winning percentage as well with a .208 compared to a .143. Now you didn't argue with me on two points here. If the heat are better why did they drop two to the knicks. They gave up 18 three pointers without carmelo anthony and they lost by 20. Also the knicks are 18-5 while the heat are 15-6. As far as I know if the heat are better they should have the better record. Also I liked how you sourced the Bleacher report because on the updated power rankings the heat are 4th and the knicks are 2nd. So if the heat are the better team how come the knicks are higher than them on the rankings? Also I want to point out that that article with the one on one defenders was written a day after the beginning of the season. It was far too early to see whether or not they could fit that rank. Let's analyze this now. In steals lebron only has 1.3 steals which is dead last in the rankings. Also I checked blocks and couldn't find lebron anywhere. Now we go to Shane Battier who was ranked 9th he has 0.6 steals per game and 0.9 blocks per game. Those numbers don't show hes a great defender. I also want to say that lebron has 0.7 blocks as well. So my point there was showing that article is outdated. Now lets look at a player on the Knicks the 39 year old Jason Kidd. He has more steals than lebron and battier with 1.8 and even though he has 0.6 blocked shots that's pretty impressive looking at his age and size. So even though the heat on paper might be a better team defensively its not lebron or battier that are making it better. I also want to point out that you said that the heat are averaging more points than the knicks they aren't now. even though its only by .1 its still be impressive that they were down by 2 whole points during the season.

I urge that you vote for con :)

http://sports.yahoo.com...
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http://bleacherreport.com...
Wallstreetatheist

Con

Wallstreetatheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by mattyasano.1 4 years ago
mattyasano.1
more CONVINCING ARGUMENTS!!!!!!!!!! are you KIDDING me???????????????????
Posted by mattyasano.1 4 years ago
mattyasano.1
any1 wanna vote?
Posted by mattyasano.1 4 years ago
mattyasano.1
as you could see my opponent has forfeited
Posted by mattyasano.1 4 years ago
mattyasano.1
you got 12 hours bud
Posted by mattyasano.1 4 years ago
mattyasano.1
why arent you responding you have 13 hours
Posted by mattyasano.1 4 years ago
mattyasano.1
looks like my opponent has forfeted
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by carpediem 4 years ago
carpediem
mattyasano.1WallstreetatheistTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Wallstreetatheist forfeited the last round, so the conduct rightly goes to Pro, since they were both cordial to one another. Pro had weak argumentation for rounds 2 and 3. He could have substantiated to a greater degree during this time. He essentially waited until the last round to make his case with sources; however, in debate new arguments introduced in the last round are disregarded by the judge, because the opposing team either has negligible space/time to respond to new arguments or physically cannot respond to the new arguments for having want of another round. Con used sources to substantiate his arguments in rounds in which introductory arguments were allowed. I think both debaters could have contributed more to the debate in the main case and analysis rounds.