The Instigator
DeFool
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
iEconomics
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Obama Presidency has been, overall, a success.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
DeFool
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/25/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 918 times Debate No: 25824
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

DeFool

Pro

I am prepared to defend the Obama record against all naysayers.


I am willing to be quite relaxed regarding all rules - if there are any that my partner would like to see observed, I am more than willing to negotiate this in the comments section. I will honor any agreements made there.

Please feel free to begin arguments in the first round, we are all here to debate with one another, and the sooner we begin, the better.
iEconomics

Con

I accept & am excited to participate in this debate!

My opponent has a deep dark, daunting task on his hands to say the least. Defending the Obama record is something I could not do if you paid me. That's about as hard as defending the Bush record, considering that Obama is Bush 2.0. Obama has delivered Bush's 3rd term. But I will be expecting the typical Pro-Obama arguments (ObamaCare, Bin Laden, Iraq. The Works...)

I will argue that this president is a failure, and is just as bad, if not worse then our last president, and is just another liar/puppet for the Federal Reserve, the Military Industrial Complex, the special interests, and offers no real "Change" for this country. Obama = Status Quo.

Mind you that you are debating someone who SUPPORTED Obama in 2008. (What a sheep I was.)

I wish my opponent luck in our match. Let the discussion begin.

Debate Round No. 1
DeFool

Pro

Damn.

Of all the defenses of this president that I have made, the ones that pain me the most are those that come from my fellows and sisters within the liberal community. In these instances, I must argue against my beloved ideology somewhat, in order that I may support a politician who is as corruptible as any other.

It cannot be argued that this president is anywhere near as skillful as FDR, nor as monumental as Lincoln, or as transformational as LBJ. Over the arc of history, it cannot be argued that his term was as important as that of my personal “top three” of Washington, Jefferson and Polk.

So, not perfect. But on balance, overall, this term was quite important to this nation. The things that have been achieved are staggering – if not on the epic scale of LBJ or Polk. Even my partner, whose job it is to destroy the idea of the general success of this term, has grudgingly admitted to important achievements. His list includes the killing of Osama bin Laden, concluding the expensive and painful engagement in Iraq, and extending comprehensive health care to millions of the previously uninsured.

Mine will be longer - and thicker as well; I will not prevent myself from bloviating about flattering things.

Let’s do the definitions, a tedious but necessary thing.

“Overall Success:”
Let us place this term somewhere above the success rate of Nixon, and below that of Washington. “Success” should not mean successfully succeeding in some nefarious plot to destroy America – as was the case with the evil James Buchanan. For me to establish that President Obama has been an “Overall Success” what I will intend to say is that his term achieved successes that will probably be remembered for at least 100 years, and will bring credit to his memory.

In this, Con must demonstrate the opposite: that that the “achievements” of the President are not really all that impressive, and will soon be forgotten or will shame him somehow. (I am already aware that he has “failed” to make Republicans and Democrats love one another, and that his ears are rather large.)

Let’s get right into it.

As evidence that, overall, president Obama has achieved a successful first term I shall present the following list. I predict that my partner will present an alternate list, detailing his “failures.” This is expected. However, failure to achieve every goal is something that is a profoundly difficult thing to imagine ever occurring in the real world. It is my hope that Con will be able to demonstrate that these successes will soon cease to matter, will be forgotten, or will shame the president – and that we will not simply present dueling lists.

I argue that these achievements will eventually be seen by future earthlings as something of note in their history books. It is the task of my partner to demonstrate that these things will not be remembered, or commemorated.


Was (and still is) Black, and Got Elected – at the Same Time: I have been told that this president is black. Having also been elected president, I argue that he will be remembered as “successful” at least in this regard.

Passed Health Care Reform: This is, by far, the most popular and life (and wealth) saving achievement of this president – and it is no small matter. 32 million uninsured Americans will gain access to life saving and life-enhancing medical care, beginning in 2014. According to a recent peer-reviewed Harvard study, the lack of medical insurance was a major contributor in the deaths of an estimated 45,000 deaths in the United Stated a year [1]. Five presidents have tried to pass universal health insurance, over the course of over a century.

When Americans are asked about the vile “ObamaCare,” they react negatively. We hate that. But when we are asked about any particular provision of Health Care Reform, we love it. Ask about whether children born with birth defects should be denied health insurance, for example – Americans will agree with the President that they should not.

Additionally, extending health insurance will largely eliminate the main cause of some 17% of bankruptcy filings in the US. [2]

Stimulus: That is, middle class tax cuts, because 2/3rds of the $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was made up of tax cuts directed towards the middle class. This represents some of the largest such tax cuts in the history of the United States. [3] So successful was this stimulation of the economy, that even the President’s adversaries were requesting their share of the effort. Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan, while criticizing the plan in front of the cameras, was quietly asking for stimulus help behind closed doors. [4] After the stimulus was passed, unemployment began to improve almost immediately, until today the American private sector has created over 3 million new jobs.

Taxes Cut to Historic Lows: How many presidents have cut taxes so much in such a short period of time? Not Bush. Not Reagan. Not even Jimmy Carter was able to reduce the federal tax rate in the first term as much as President Obama has. During Obama’s first term, there have been more tax cuts for more Americans than at any time in at least the past 30 years. [6]

Repealed “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”: No matter how this rule is perceived by critics, it happened: the rule was overturned.

Wall Street Reform: The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (2010) took important steps to regulate many corrupt Wall Street schemes, and created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which has cracked down on abusive lending practices that victimize the poor and middle class.

Concluded the War in Iraq: On December 18, 2011, the last elements of the US military left Iraq.

Began Draw down of War in Afghanistan: After a politically risky “surge” that increased troops in Afghanistan to 101,000 in June 2011, U.S. combat forces are now down to 91,000, with 23,000 leaving this month. According to all accounts, America will no longer have armed service personnel in Afghanistan by 2014.

Killed Osama: Yes, we did. And this president was able to accomplish this without triggering a war with nuclear-armed Pakistan. What signal does this send to Iran and North Korea? That nuclear weapons will not prevent an American response to intolerable
provocation.

Salvaged the U.S. Auto Industry: The United States auto industry was on the verge of system wide collapse. US auto manufacturing was in real danger of being overtaken by foreign competition during what would have been a devastating bankruptcy process. This President injected $62 billion in loans to GM and Chrysler, in return for equity stakes, repayment agreements and restructuring. Since that time, the auto industry in America has added over 100,000 jobs, and the “Big Three” are gaining market share for the first time in twenty years.

Toppled Moammar Qaddafi: Qaddafi had humiliated Reagan, but not Obama. In March 2011, President Obama authorized military assistance that became instrumental in overthrowing, raping and killing the lunatic Moammar Qaddafi. No Americans died in combat, we do not need to rebuild Libya.

Ended the Bush era Torture Policies: In the first week of this term, President Obama ended the Bush policies that enabled the use of torture.

[1] http://news.harvard.edu...

[2] http://abcnews.go.com...

[3] http://www.factcheck.org...

[4] http://abcnews.go.com...

[5] http://www.whitehouse.gov...

[6] http://www.factcheck.org...

iEconomics

Con

iEconomics forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
DeFool

Pro

I regret that my partner was unable to join the discussion over the last round. I hope that he is well, and that he will rejoin the debate soon.

For my part, I extend my argument that the listed achievements should be considered evidence of success on the part of this president.
iEconomics

Con

iEconomics forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
DeFool

Pro

I thank my partner for accepting this debate with me, and ask that, despite the anticlimactic end, that voters still consider issuing judgement. I would be mortified if this contest should be ruled a draw.
iEconomics

Con

iEconomics forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by DeFool 2 years ago
DeFool
Ron Paul, I expect that you are aware that you were the inspiration for this debate of mine. I even used your wording - I was getting it out of my system.

I wasn't directly attempting to swarm the discussion, I was merely presenting a wide field. Although this presidents critics are not eager to say so, this has been quite an eventful term in office. For many reasons. It simply wouldn't be fair to my side if I were to ignore these achievements.

This said, I left many such acomplishments out of my list. That he has pushed through so many middle class tax cuts, for example.
Posted by Ron-Paul 2 years ago
Ron-Paul
@DeFool: A note of advice, don't make 12 points about Obama and expect a rebuttal to each. There is just not enough room to adequately and thoroughly go through each argument.

For example, combine economics into one argument, foreign policy into another, and social reform into one last one. It will be easier for each side to address the arguments at hand.

P.S. I would still love to debate you on this topic. Just whenever you have the time (I have been very busy lately but I have just been freed up).
Posted by DeFool 2 years ago
DeFool
I was just reading over this, and it has occurred to me that my sarcastic statement: "However, failure to achieve every goal is something that is a profoundly difficult thing to imagine ever occurring in the real world" was not properly framed. It isn't even clear that this was in jest.

I personally blame a mischievous mix of Dr Pepper and absynthe. That stuff just leaves me prone to making careless statements.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 2 years ago
Ron-Paul
DeFooliEconomicsTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Sad. Just sad.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 2 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
DeFooliEconomicsTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited, and Pro was the only one to present an argument.