The Instigator
TheOpinionist
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
missjones
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Occupy Movement was better than the Tea Party Movement

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TheOpinionist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/9/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 953 times Debate No: 76379
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

TheOpinionist

Con

First round is for acceptance. Rounds 2-4 will go as follows

R2-Argument (pro),Argument (con)
R3-Rebuttal (pro), Rebuttal (con)
R4-Defense of Argument and closing statement (pro and con)

BoP goes to Pro, as they have to prove that the Occupy Movement was better than the Tea Party Movement
missjones

Pro

Hello friend, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I wish you will. I accept the debate. Let's go.
Debate Round No. 1
TheOpinionist

Con

In this debate, I will debate on the side of the Tea Party, in an attempt to negate the statement that The Occupy Movement was better than the Tea Party Movement. My opponent will make her argument in Round 1, and we will rebut each others arguments in Round 2.

Here's why the Occupy Movement was not better than the Tea Party movement.

Keep in mind that we will use the definition of "better" that was used in the comments section
"Had a more efficient political message, maintained civility throughout protests, etc." (http://www.debate.org...)

E1.) Astronomical crime rates for a "peaceful" protest
As of November 16, 2011, Occupy Wall Street has been responsible for two murders, over ten rapes, over three incidents of public masturbation, over five accounts of indecent exposure to children, a suicide, an Occupier who shot at the White House, two incidents of arson, and over 500 thefts. These resulted in roughly 4000 arrests and over 10 Million dollars in arson damage alone. [1]

The amount of Tea Partiers who committed any of these crimes? Zero. [1]


That is a clear score for the Tea Party. They were much more civil.

E2.) Comparing the political messages...
The Tea Party has its agenda in large text right on the front page of their website-
"Preamble: The Tea Party Movement is an all-inclusive American grassroots movement with the belief that everyone is created equal and deserves an equal opportunity to thrive in these United States where they may “pursue life, liberty and happiness” as stated in the Declaration of Independence and guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. 

No one is excluded from participation in the Tea Party Movement. Everyone is welcomed to join in seeking to achieve the Tea Party Movement goals, which are as follows:

1. Eliminate Excessive Taxes - Excessively high taxes are a burden for those exercising their personal liberty to work hard and prosper as afforded by the Constitution. A fiscally responsible government protects the freedom of its citizens to enjoy the fruits of their own labor without interference from a government that has exceeded its necessary size, scope and reach into the lives of its citizens.[2]

2. Eliminate the National Debt - By implementing fiscally conservative policies at all levels of government, progress can be made toward eliminating the U.S. National Debt. Massive increases in the National Debt have created and continue to create a huge burden for the next generation of Americans, thus imperiling the country’s short-term and long-term economic health and prosperity.[2]

3. Eliminate Deficit Spending - All deficit spending must be eliminated immediately. We insist that government representatives at all levels maintain a fiscally responsible budget and balance the books as would be expected of any American business.[2]

4. Protect Free Markets - America’s free enterprise system allows businesses to thrive as they compete in the open marketplace and strive toward ever better services and products. Allowing free markets to prosper unfettered by government interference is what propelled this country to greatness with an enduring belief in the industriousness and innovations of the populace.[2]

5. Abide by the Constitution of the United States - The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and must be adhered to without exception at all levels of government. This includes the Bill of Rights and other Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and their provisions designed to protect states’ rights and individual liberties.[2]

6. Promote Civic Responsibility - Citizen involvement at the grassroots level allows the voice of the American people to be heard and directs the political behaviors of our representatives at both the local and national level so they, in turn, may be most effective in working to preserve the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of this country’s citizens.[2]

7. Reduce the Overall Size of Government - A bloated bureaucracy creates wasteful spending that plagues our government. Reducing the overall size, scope and reach of government at both local and national levels will help to eliminate inefficiencies that result in deficit spending which adds to our country’s debt.[2]

8. Believe in the People - The American people, given their guaranteed freedoms, will thrive in a democratic, capitalist environment which allows individuals to strive toward ever greater achievements, innovations and the efficient production of needed and valued goods and services. [2]

9. Avoid the Pitfalls of Politics - American politics is burdened by big money from lobbyists and special interests with an undue influence on the peoples’ representatives. The Tea Party movement is seen as a threat to the entrenched political parties and thus is the continual target of smear campaigns and misrepresentation of its ideals. We choose not to respond to these attacks except to strongly and explicitly disavow any and all hate speech, any and all violence as well as insinuations of violence, and any and all extreme and fringe elements that bring discredit to the Tea Party Movement. We are a peaceful movement and respect other's opinions and views even though they do not agree with our own. We stand by the Tea Party beliefs and goals and choose to focus our energies on ensuring that our government representatives do the same. [2]

10. Maintain Local Independence - The strength and resilience of a grassroots movement is the ability of citizens at the local level to determine their own platforms, agendas and priorities free of an overriding central leadership. Exercising the clearly stated message of the Tea Party movement by its nature involves discourse about which policies and candidates best hold to our stated principles, and these various opinions should flourish and evolve at the local level." [2]

Seriously, these guys are awesome. There is so much that I didn't get to put here that is o their website.

Occupy? Well... Danile Indiviglio says it best "Any protest that hopes to accomplish some goal needs, well, a goal. If a demonstration like this lacks concrete objectives, then its purpose will be limited at best and nonexistent at worst. At this time, all the protest really appears to stand for is a general dislike of Wall Street. But what does that mean?"


That's right. Occupy Wall Street never had a clear goal. We knew they didn't like the way the government was run, but that's about it. Anyone who claims to know these motives can only say that the Occupiers want government to be expanded, a direct contradiction to their anti-establishment protests.

That's another point in the Red Corner (ha, see what I did there?)

In conclusion, by the provided definition of "better," I have clearly proved that the Occupy Wall Street movement was indeed not superior to the Tea Party movement. The resolution is negated.

And just for fun, here's two more reasons why Occupy sucks- They have no organization or strategy [3]

Shots fired, and on to Pro for her argument.




Sources
1.) http://www.freerepublic.com... (at the bottom of the chart he has the sources he used to make it) It's all on this page though.
2.) http://www.teaparty-platform.com...
3.) http://www.grahamandpeters.com...
missjones

Pro

I'm tired of reading all of these pathetically formed essays. You're weak, and you know it. Throwing up a silly table to hide behind. Why do all of these people on here need to be such cowards? What a poor show. And now for your "sources." I don't need to read these random website links. What do you want me to do, copy and paste each one into my browser? I'm not ready to become as simple-minded as you quite yet, so I'll refrain from reading anything you suggest.

Come on, coward. We both know you can do better. Please try.
Debate Round No. 2
TheOpinionist

Con

Thanks, pro, but did you misread the resolution? I don't think it had anything to do with cowardice.

My opponent called me a coward... A coward is "a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain,etc.[1]"

I don't think that I'm the one here that could be defined as a coward, as there is no opposition or difficulty for me to face here, only annoyance.

My opponent had no objections to any of my points, so they carry on here.


I believe that I have presented accurate reasoning for my support of the Tea Party Movement, as well as my disdain for the Occupy Movement. Heh. Just for kicks, more Occupy stupidity in the sources.

Sources:
1.) http://dictionary.reference.com...
2.) http://sacramento.cbslocal.com...
3.) http://www.ranker.com...
4.) http://capitalist-shrugged.blogspot.com...
5.) http://www.ebaumsworld.com...
6.) http://howcanpeoplebesostupid.com...


And yes, you are supposed to copy and paste these into your browser to fact check them.

Thanks for your time, and on to Pro for her next argument satement.
missjones

Pro

missjones forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
TheOpinionist

Con

I have slain a giant today.
A GIANT TROLL!






Vote Con.
missjones

Pro

missjones forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TheOpinionist 2 years ago
TheOpinionist
Thanks to Varrack for the vote! It means a lot
Posted by TheOpinionist 2 years ago
TheOpinionist
I sure hope she didn't forfeit.
Posted by TheOpinionist 2 years ago
TheOpinionist
Preamble and #1 came out weird, but I think we all get the point
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I agree with what you're saying, I just like civil unrest.
Posted by TheOpinionist 2 years ago
TheOpinionist
@Wylted I didn't like how Occupy's proposed solution was to expand gov't power. We should have the freedom to right our own wrongs.
Posted by TheOpinionist 2 years ago
TheOpinionist
I think im going to change the subject of the debate to politics.
Posted by TheOpinionist 2 years ago
TheOpinionist
There have been some people saying that they like both.
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
Am I the only one that liked both movements? I love anything anti-establishment.
Posted by TheOpinionist 2 years ago
TheOpinionist
Had a more efficient political message, maintained civility throughout protests, etc.
Posted by Varrack 2 years ago
Varrack
Define "better"
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Varrack 2 years ago
Varrack
TheOpinionistmissjonesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Pro forfeited 2 rounds. Args - Con put forth several args but Pro didn't rebut any of them. Sources - Con used the only sources.