The Instigator
untitled_entity
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points
The Contender
patsox834
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

The Offspring is a more influential band to punk rock than Blink 182

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
untitled_entity
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/21/2009 Category: Arts
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,806 times Debate No: 8375
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (4)

 

untitled_entity

Con

aff goes first
patsox834

Pro

To start, I'd like to thank my opponent for starting this debate -- music debates are very intriguing to me.

I suppose the reason why I think the Offspring have had more influence than Blink-182 can be traced back to 1994 -- the Offspring released the album "Smash" via the independent punk rock record label "Epitaph." Not only has this album gone six times platinum according to Rolling Stone magazine* -- but, along with the Green Day album "Dookie," and the Rancid album ..."And Out Come the Wolves," Smash helped to revive the punk rock scene. Smash is also the highest selling album ever to be released from an independent label.*

To put it simply, punk rock music owes a significant "thanks" to the Offspring and "Smash" for taking it off life support, and kick-starting its heart. Blink-182 have made no such contributions to the punk rock genre.

* = http://www.rollingstone.com...
Debate Round No. 1
untitled_entity

Con

I thank my opponent for accepting, I find that a lot of people cannot debate music well, simply because they don't have enough knowledge on the subject; however my opponent knows their stuff, so I'm looking forward to this one.

I believe that Blink 182 is a more influential band to punk rock than the offspring for multiple reasons.

First and foremost, Blink 182 never really matured. They got older, they changed their hair styles but they still refused to take themselves seriously which definitely shone through in their music. They took the ideas of the Descendants and Bad Religion and boiled them down to suit a pop - punk culture. As a result they have helped form the genre and thus paved the way for bands like Fall Out Boy (which I do not condone) as well as Paramore and the various bands signed with Fueled By Ramen Records. They also used their fame to promote bands such as Jimmy Eat World, Motion City Soundtrack, Taking Back Sunday, The Academy Is..., and New Found Glory - amongst others.
www.absolutepunk.net

When Blink released "Dude Ranch" in '97, the success of "Dammit' and "Josie" helped to sell about a million copies of the album. In addition, when they released "Enema of The State" it went on to sell 15 million copies making them one of the biggest punk acts of all time.
www.blink182.com/discography
patsox834

Pro

I'd like to thank my opponent for an interesting response.

<"They took the ideas of the Descendants and Bad Religion and boiled them down to suit a pop - punk culture. As a result they have helped form the genre and thus paved the way for bands like Fall Out Boy (which I do not condone) as well as Paramore and the various bands signed with Fueled By Ramen Records.">

I very much disagree with the above point written by my opponent.

Firstly, regarding the inclusion of Bad Religion: they're political and serious (for the most part), with their lyrics; they involve a heavier and more extensive vocabulary than your typical punk rock band, and use much more figurative language. Blink-182 seem to be the opposite: their lyrics typically deal with frivolities, teen angst, etc...things which are cliched in the pop-punk genre. Their ideas seem to be opposites, if anything.

Secondly, I think there's a distinction to be made between pop-punk and punk rock; they're not the same thing. While Blink-182 could be more influential to the pop-punk scene, that's irrelevant, because the debate is about who was more influential to the genre of punk rock -- not pop-punk.

So essentially, I believe the above quote written by my opponent to be irrelevant to this debate. Pop-punk is simply a derivative of the punk-rock genre, which means they're related -- but they aren't the same thing, which is important to remember.

As far as raw punk rock music goes, the Offspring, as stated, with their album "Smash" helped to revive punk rock in the early 90's. Blink-182 have made no such contributions to the genre of punk rock. My initial argument still stands.

I look forward to my opponents rebuttal.

P.S: if you're interested in punk rock music, try out these bands: the Dead Kennedys, the Damned, Guttermouth, and Agent Orange. That's completely irrelevant to the debate -- but I figure if you like punk rock music, then you'll like those bands.
Debate Round No. 2
untitled_entity

Con

This box is a blurb of irrelevance intended for my opponent [[Thank you very much for the music suggestions, however I already listen to those bands. :) - I look forward to discussing music with you after this debate, if you're interested]]

As I stated, Blink 182 took more of the concepts of the Descendants and Bad Religion - not really the general idea. They took the Descendants and Bad Religion and toned it down - matching it to a maturity level they thought people would easier relate to. Though not everyone might be able to sympathize with a authoritarian government, pretty much everyone, at some point in their life has considered their parent a dictator which is why they are relate able. They take these big concepts and make them easier to digest for younger people, so that at a later point they will (hopefully) be able to grasp the full scope of the concept.

Though my opponent may believe that Blink - 182's influence to the pop - punk scene is irrelevant, I must disagree, after all it is a part of punk. Though it has gained in popularity, punk is not as "listener" friendly as some other genres and some listeners and parents of younger listeners need to take a different approach to the genre. That's where the pop - punk scene comes in. For those who are not ready for Blink - 182 or want to start off with bands with simpler instrumentation, the pop - punk scene is a better fit. With Blink - 182's influence they have helped to mold the punk genre and its sub genres. Though the resolution states Punk, pop - punk is a part of punk and therefore I believe it is relevant to this debate.

As I illustrated in my constructive, "Enema of The State" went on to sell 15 million copies making it one of the biggest punk acts of all time. Not to mention, the Offspring did veer from their Punk Rock ways with "Pretty Fly For A White Guy" which in the opening line they steal from Def Leppard with the quasi - german, "gunter glieben etc."
patsox834

Pro

More irrelevance: "I look forward to discussing music with you after this debate, if you're interested." -- haha, sure. I'm fine with that.

Anyway, back to the debate.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

<"Though not everyone might be able to sympathize with a authoritarian government, pretty much everyone, at some point in their life has considered their parent a dictator which is why they are relate able. They take these big concepts and make them easier to digest for younger people, so that at a later point they will (hopefully) be able to grasp the full scope of the concept.">

I think going from lyrics about the state of the government to lyrics about teenage angst issues (such as struggles with mom and dad) is a rather large leap. The connection between the two made by my opponent seems to be very general, and therefore, weak.

The more general you are, the easier it is to make comparisons -- but not necessarily valid ones. The lack of specifics docks them merit. For example, Bob Dylan was known for his politically inspired lyrics, and so are the Dead Kennedys -- but despite that, their lyrical stylings and the concepts shared within them greatly differ; Dylan often wrote philosophical, ambiguous lyrics (such as Blowin' in the Wind), whereas the Dead Kennedys were very satirical; they often wrote from the viewpoint of their intended targets (ex: Kill the Poor.)

So, while Dylan and the DK's both have the general connection of politically inspired lyrics, that doesn't mean the ideas, concepts, etc., are similar. It's the same thing with Bad Religion and Blink-182 -- both of them seem to promote rebellion (to a degree), but they're still different. As I talked about earlier, Blink-182's lyrics often deal with the problems one faces while growing up, whereas Bad Religion write more intricate lyrics (broad use of metaphors, imagery, and a relatively extensive vocabulary) about social consciousness.

<"With Blink - 182's influence they have helped to mold the punk genre and its sub genres. Though the resolution states Punk, pop - punk is a part of punk and therefore I believe it is relevant to this debate.">

I believe my opponent to be incorrect -- yes, as I stated, they're related -- but that doesn't mean contributing to one equates to contributing to the other, nor does it mean it's relevant...all music is in *some* way related, but that doesn't make all music relevant to the debate.

Making a contribution to one aspect of music won't necessarily reflect in another aspect of music, such as being influential to the pop-punk scene, and being influential to the punk rock scene; you can have influence in one, but have very little in the other.

That is why I believe Blink-182's influence over the pop-punk scene to be irrelevant. Just because pop-punk and punk rock are related doesn't mean that contributing to one equates to contributing to another.

<"As I illustrated in my constructive, "Enema of The State" went on to sell 15 million copies making it one of the biggest punk acts of all time. Not to mention, the Offspring did veer from their Punk Rock ways with "Pretty Fly For A White Guy" which in the opening line they steal from Def Leppard with the quasi - german, "gunter glieben etc."">

While the Offspring did abandon their punk rock roots, I do believe that Blink-182 had done the same thing by the album "Enema of the State." They had a pre-packaged, big record label image, and completely lacked the "do it yourself" attitude which is prominent throughout punk rock music. Albums such as the Offspring's "Smash" didn't share those qualities -- they released it from an independent label, and they...well, did it themselves, to be succinct.

Anyway...

As the resolution, does, indeed, state, the debate is about the Offspring's and Blink-182's influence over punk rock -- showing that one band is more influential in pop-punk doesn't mean they're more influential to punk rock. My opponent hasn't shown Blink-182 to be more influential to punk rock, and not only that, but the argument I initially made in favor of the Offspring being more influential hasn't been rebutted, and therefore, still stands. That in mind, I urge you to vote pro.

Lastly, I'd like to thank my opponent for a fun debate.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by chekt 7 years ago
chekt
Dead Kennedys = super awesome.

I just listened the The Offspring today because of this debate, I was surprised that I actually liked them. I'm going to listen to one of their albums.

I dislike Blink - 182, though.
Posted by patsox834 7 years ago
patsox834
For those who are unfamiliar with punk rock music...this is what I'm talking about. I consider them to be one of the best punk bands ever. And I think this performance is one of the better moments in punk rock history, as well.
Posted by untitled_entity 8 years ago
untitled_entity
ah, alright cool. Thanks!
Posted by patsox834 8 years ago
patsox834
Ha, when I initially read this, I thought you were pro. Seeing as you're not, and I'm an Offspring fan...accepted.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by LipstickandLightplay 7 years ago
LipstickandLightplay
untitled_entitypatsox834Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by SKEPTICISM 7 years ago
SKEPTICISM
untitled_entitypatsox834Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Brian1228 7 years ago
Brian1228
untitled_entitypatsox834Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
untitled_entitypatsox834Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70