The Instigator
crronaldo180
Pro (for)
Winning
18 Points
The Contender
Conspicuous_Conservative
Con (against)
Losing
15 Points

The Patriots are underachieving in the second half of the season.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/17/2007 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,920 times Debate No: 584
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (16)
Votes (11)

 

crronaldo180

Pro

The Patriots have been huge favorites in most if not all of the games they have played this season. The beginning of the year they came out on fire, but they are starting to lose their dominant edge. They have been 30 to 40 point favorites in most of their games, and in almost all of them they have just barely managed to pull them out.
Conspicuous_Conservative

Con

Good day to all, i would like to first start my conversation by stating that I am a Chiefs fan and really could care less whether or not the Patriots do good or not but I really think that you are jumping to conclusions when you state that the Patriots are under achieving. For numerous reasons the output of the Patriots team is on a downward trend.

First reason is the fact that the Patriots beat the hell out of teams early in the season, none of which where very good excluding the Cowboys and Colts as legitimate contenders. After amassing ridiculously high expectations from people they have still continued to shine excluding the game against Eagles and the game with the Ravens. Remember after the Bye they murdered the Bills 56-10 and handled the Steelers the best defense (statistically) in the league 34-13. I think it is fairly premature to state that a team that has yet to lose can be classified as underachieving.

Each week Coach Bill Belichick (very cocky and poorly dressed) has used the same pass all game, game plan to win ball games. Remember this team has no run game so you would think that teams at this level could adjust to that game plan but even the few (Colts, Ravens and Eagles) just fell a bit short.

Lastly we all must remember the fact that winter is poking it's ugly little head. That is why I dismissed the game between Pats v Jets this week as close 20-10 because the weather was terrible. We all must remember that 60 percent of the US was covered in snow look at the poor stats that came from the Redskins v Giants game http://scores.espn.go.com...
or the far more dismal stats from the Browns v Bills game http://scores.espn.go.com... It is safe to say that with the strange weather crossing the US during game time has the affect on a team that is throw friendly team.

Lastly and I know as a Colt fan you can understand this sometimes injuries hamper a teams performance. Without Marvin Harrison, Dwight Freeney and many others the Colts have not look as impressive as they potentially could have. I mean common even my team held you guys to under 15 points. Now with your definition of underachieving I can say that about the Cowboys and the Colts seeing how both teams are barely edging out games that they should win. Remember the saying any given Sunday. That is the beauty and the curse that is the NFL.

Cheers!
Debate Round No. 1
crronaldo180

Pro

Hello Conspicuous Conservative, glad to debate you, and good luck.
First of all, you say the Patriots have ridiculous expectations to fulfill, but if they didn't want this much pressure, they shouldn't have run up the score on teams in the first place. Also, you say they played mediokre teams in the first half and are starting to see some real competition now. Their first game of the season was against the Jets where they roasted them 38-14. Their last game was also against the Jets (who were now missing Jonathan Vilma, Justin Miller, and Cody Spencer, key players on the team) almost turned into an upset. They got lucky on a missed field goal, so they were able to put the game away. But, the Jets QB Chad Pennington along with their SECOND and THIRD string QB's out threw Brady, throwing for 186 yards with a .63 completion percentage, while Brady only threw for 140 yards (a season low) with a .51 completion percentage. Also, in the first half they roasted the chargers 38-14, but now they almost lose to the Eagles, who are last place in their division, barely pulling it out 31-28. (No offense to any Eagles fans.)
Also, I'm going to have to disagree with you that the Patriots have one gameplan. Although everyone know Brady is just after all of Peyton Mannings passing records, they have lots of tools and are using them. They just aren't working. In the Jets game, Laurence Maroney was running alot since Brady was not doing well throwing the ball. Also, Lawrence Maroney is getting to be a presence around the league. If they just passed the whole time, no one would know Lawrence Maroney. They are using all of the tools they have, (Maroney, Randy Moss, Wes Welker), and they are still falling short of the bar.
In addition, winter should be a non-factor for the Patriots. Alot of people would like to blame the bad weather for the Patriots dulling their competitive edge, but the weather is not even close to a legitimate excuse for this.The Patriots play in Foxboro, where they see snow all the time. The Patriots are well acquaintited with snow, and have used it to their advantage. Not many teams are as fortunate as the patriots to have played in snow. Whenever the Patriots play in snow, they have a valuable advantage. All of the playoff games you saw the Patriots pull out against very good teams, (alot of them against the Colts), have been in snow and cold temperatures. The colts coming in from Indy havn't seen snow much, so they have trouble adapting to the weather. The Patriots are right at home. Bottom line, for the Patriots, snow is a valuable tool, and this should aid them to win games. It is not a legitimate excuse for why they are not winning games, and in fact, a good question would be why they aren't dominant again now that they have reached their most comfortable weather and conditions.
Last, don't bust on the Colts when they are playing very well for their circucstances. You say they are just edging out games they should be winning, but you even say yourself they have been rocked by injuries all season. The Colts are starting to lose their edge also, but they have a very good excuse. They are losing valuable players every week, and they will be very healthy when they get all of their resting players back for the playoffs. Anyway, even with all of these lost players, Manning is still leading a team of second string players to wins week after week. The Patriots have had all of their superstars very healthy all season. But, they are still declining. What I think they are messing up in is keeping all of their key players in every week to get Brady past Manning's record and not giving anybody any rest. About the Cowboys, I don't really know, because I don't follow their team. I do love the Any Given Sunday aspect of the NFL. It makes any game interesting. But their is still skill involved. We aren't dealing with set up games yet. This pattern in the Patriots playing is definately a sign of their slow downfall.
Conspicuous_Conservative

Con

Once again I would like to thank my opponent crronaldo180 and all the people that have taken the time to moderate our debate. I would also like to reiterate the fact that I am not by any means on the Patriots band wagon nor do i have any ties to that organization.

I would like first to state that in order to state that the Patriots are underachieving would mean that they are expected to beat every team and that no other team is on the same playing field as the Pats. You gave me the example of the Philly game being an instance in which the Pats didn't show up but I beg to differ I feel that Philly although they are very inconsistent Philly played Green bay close week 1, they stomped Detroit week 3, they edged Minnesota week 8, and they had the close game with New England and the upset over Cowboys. So are you telling me that Cowboys are underachieving, Green bay is under achieving and Minnesota and all the teams that Philly has played close or beaten underachieving. The fact of the matter is that only a hand full of teams have accomplished what the Patriots have and if they continue to win no matter what the score is no one can take that from them.

I feel that New England's dominance of the NFL has cause them to get that stigma similar to the hatred and envy of the New York Yankees or the Los Angels Lakers. Face it most of us like to pull for the under dog and until I see the Pats lose not in the regular reason but the playoffs i will not jump to conclusion and call them underachievers especially when no team yet has displayed the skill to beat them.

You have made the point that Pats are running up the score, I beg to differ in the NFL the competition is so much their that the line between a good and bad team is marginal same can be said about the elite teams. I ring true to the statement any given Sunday and whether you believe it or not the Pats cannot be called underachievers until they lose a PLAYOFF Game and are eliminated. What sucks in a side note is the fact whether they win or lose this year they have the 49ers first round pick and with the Niners having one of the poorest records in the league can someone say hello Darren McFadden
Debate Round No. 2
crronaldo180

Pro

Hello Conspicuous Conservative,
By the way, I would also like to thank all of the people keeping an eye on our debate, and Conspicuous Conservative for debating me. So far, it's been a great debate.
I do agree that Green Bay probably could have beaten Philly, but Minnesota and Detroit aren't even in the same league as New England. The Vikings and Lions games weren't at all supposed to be blowouts, and anyone could have won those games. So, they weren't underachiving, because they weren't supposed to kill them in the first place. Also, even with the Packers, that game was before the Packers got going. They were just off the preseason and hadn't gotten into their rhythm yet. The Patriots had been flying through the season clobbering teams when they had a close game with the Eagles. The Patriots should have killed the Eagles, when none of those other teams should have.
The Patriots are not being hated because of their success, but they are hated because of being unsportsmanlike in the first half of the season. No one ever hates someone just for winning. There is usually something else there. With the Patriots, people hate them because they tried to run up the score on their teams, and publicly humiliate them.
No offense, but I don't really understand what you mean about running up the score. I can't really understand your point. Maybe you can reiterate that in your next argument. Again, no offense. I know that playoffs can really determine how good a team is really doing, but regular season definitely shows that too. Also, for the Patriots, the regular season is like their playoffs. They are playing with no mercy, keeping all their starters in. You can't argue that they are losing just because they are resting players. They have had all of their starters in the whole season, and they are still starting to lose their dominance.
Conspicuous_Conservative

Con

First of all I would like to thank all for their involvement in our debate. I would also like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a happy holiday season. I just got done watching the Patriots cruise to their 15th win this season they also tied the NFL record that they ppreviously owned for most consecutive regular season games of 18. With Moss 1 shy of Rice's record and Brady 1 shy of Manning's record.

If you read the NFL rule book their is nothing illegal about "running the score up". This is the NFL they are professionals. It isn't evil and it is kind of sad that teams and fans will complain. I am sorry when a team you dislike continues to win they are demonized.

There is nothing I can say to change your mind you have such a love fo your team that you will not accept the fact that your rival is going to break your records and also win the most games in a single season record. They have only had a handful of close games and you cannot say they underachieve thank you take care
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Conspicuous_Conservative 9 years ago
Conspicuous_Conservative
Man San Diego without LT or Rivers and a rookie year coach out played the super bowl champs and ruined my Patriots defeating the Colts dream game. Congrats to the Patriot fan underneath on a great season. Hopefully he voted and with the Pats getting the niners draft pick McFadden could be in da cards for the Pats cheers by the way I have been saying Farve vs Brady Past vs Future since mid season. Cheers!!
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
17-0 doesn't seem like underachieving to me lol
Posted by Conspicuous_Conservative 9 years ago
Conspicuous_Conservative
why are u thankin someone todd, u making fun or what?
Posted by Todd1029 9 years ago
Todd1029
Thanks my friend you are a very good sport and I wish you the best. Hope to see you round.
Posted by crronaldo180 9 years ago
crronaldo180
Conspicuous Conservative,
This was a great debate, and congratulations on your win. You deserve it. You put up great arguments and they were pretty hard to match. Hope to debate you in the future.
Posted by Conspicuous_Conservative 9 years ago
Conspicuous_Conservative
Packers vs Patriots in da super bowl I really think that the redskins and jaguars also have a chance to upset some teams. Go Pats records all over just need two more wins for most wins in a single season
Posted by crronaldo180 9 years ago
crronaldo180
Kev, no offense about the Eagles comment. You know I didn't think they should have killed them, and I respect them for how they pulled through tough games throughout the season. I'm just saying that all of the sports experts were predicting a blowout. I didn't mean to offend anyone with that comment. Also, sorry about forfeiting everyone. I was on a very long vacation in New Hampshire and I couldn't get on the internet.
Posted by jazz123 9 years ago
jazz123
the other day tom brady even said on a press conference they it was boring winning all his games. I think the patriots are just resting not trying to ge hurt or risk anything. I do believe they arent doing as well but i dont think their underachieving.
Posted by RepublicanView333 9 years ago
RepublicanView333
Dan...,what the Hell, "kill the Eagles"...what the Hell...
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
crronaldo , they didnt lose any domin ace tonight lol They beat the Dolphins pretty easily :)15-0 :) wooohooo GO PATS Merry Christmas to everyone :)
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