The Instigator
noxdoloris
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points

The Planned Parenthood sale of Fetal Organs is unethical

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/12/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 512 times Debate No: 82399
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (3)

 

noxdoloris

Con

first round is acceptance.

I accept this debate.
lannan13

Pro

I accept this debate.

Debate Round No. 1
noxdoloris

Con

Planned Parenthood is a non profit organization to help people with reproductive health services. It is commonly agreed that this is a good thing. The fetal organs that they sell come from fetuses that are already dead and causes no harm to any living organisms. The profits made from these sales go to fund this charitable organization so that they can help educate people and provide birth control which will help prevent a future abortion. In addition the fetuses are sold to medical professionals to either study or use for treatments thus doing further good. Because the sale of fetuses does not cause any further harm than without selling the fetuses and it has the ability to prevent further abortions, save lives, and help the still living planned parenthood's sale of fetuses is the ethical choice.
lannan13

Pro

I thank my opponent for the challenge. I will begin this debate with giving my opening arguments this round and then my rebuttals will be in my next round.

Contention 1: John Rawls's Veil of Ignorance

We my first clarify a few things and the first task is to eliminate the bias behind this topic. Here we have to look at it through John Rawls Veil of Ignorance. Here one must look through Rawl's Veil of Ignorance. In order to do that one's creed, race, sex, religion, political views, and generation does not matter. This in in order to eliminate bias from the viewer in order to view his two principles of Difference and Equality. The Equality Principle is that the greatest extent of Liberty for everyone. The other states that it must benefit everyone, including the least advantaged, must be open to everyone, and your enemy chooses your position in that society or scenario. [1] In order to come behind this Veil must be a Rational Creature. Though this creates an interesting point of view since the person having to get an abortion is in a temporary state of irrationality due to their situation. Thus this violatest the Equality Prinicple since we are abusing certain people in a vunerable state. It also fails at the Difference Principle as the least advantaged are not only being manipulated, but the fetus is being murdered and exploited. Whether you consider alive or not is another debate, but is still a key factor in this debate as it is one of the major player in this situation. Your enemy also get's to choose your place and his they hate you with a passion you wouldn't even get to exist as you would be the aborted fetus in this case.

This situation fails the Veil of Ignorance and thus it is unethical.

Contention 2: Ethic of Care

The Ethic of Care, or also known as the feminism argument, revolves around the protection of special relationships. The Utilitarian argument reguards the improtance of the protection of the soceity and this argument will get down to the individual level. The Ethic of Care values special relationships like that of family, but as well as the relationships between generations as the Eco-feminism argument pushes for the preservation of future genreations. [2] We can see in this very situation that they constant abortions that occur for Planned Parenthood to make this profit destroy future generations through the murder of the potential children of tomorrow. This here already shows that it destroys the Ethic of Care argument thus making it unethical.


Sources
1. (http://plato.stanford.edu...)
2. MacGregor, Sherilyn (2006). Beyond mothering earth: ecological citizenship and the politics of care. Vancouver: UBC Press. p. 286
Debate Round No. 2
noxdoloris

Con

My rebuttal to contention 1 and 2 is that regardless of the sale of fetal organs the abortion was going to occur anyways. The sale of fetal organs has no impact on the occurrence of abortions. The only difference is without the sale of the fetal organs the aborted fetuses would not be able to be put to good use. Whether or not the abortion itself is ethical or unethical is a separate debate. I also argue that the sale of fetal organs is not exploitation which is defined as to utilize, to use selfishly for one's own ends. as planned parenthood is not using it selfishly as it a non profit organization and the fetuses go to being used for knowledge and to save lives which may even be a child's life which would protect someone of the future generation.
lannan13

Pro

My opponent has dropped both of my arguments claiming that my arguments are untopical, but that is false. The reason being is that I simply have to prove that if the method of getting them is immoral then the resolution would then be negated.

This round I will be focusing how "corrupt" Planned Parenthood is and how they really aren't all rainbows and sparkles, but are truely corrupt and thus they really cannot be trusted.

s://saynsumthn.files.wordpress.com...; alt="" />

I don't know about you, but I find it quite shocking that nearly $1.3 billion of federal funding could just disappear like that. [1] Before you just dismiss this argument as just some crazy right winged nonsense we have to see that the sourcing of the GAO. Meaning that the federal government's watchdog agency has found that this agency has been misusing its money. Not only that, but there have been countless accounts of Planned Parenthood overcharging states and the federal government in order to get more funding for their clinic. There were even reports that they were over charging clients WAY more than average on a normal operation procedure. [2] Planned Parenthood has even gone out of control with many of their spending habits that the Texas Planned Parenthood has gone $1 million in debt. Not to mention that many of their own clinic leaders were fined money for violating keys campaign laws. In 2008, Cary Jennings violated this law in Texas by failing to disclose it's political contrabutions. To make matters worse those funds were embezzalment. [3] We can already see that apparently Planned Parenthood provides a lot more then just "Planning Parenthood." To further this we can see that they completely do not handle their own money wisely. According to Dian Harrison, Planned Parenthood Golden Gate, announced that the company lost $2.8 million in revenue. The strange thing about this was that Panned Parenthood received a great deal of federal funding and they were reporting losses. To make matters worse we can see that 92% of their employees work at or bellow the poverty line which is shocking with the money that they are pulling in. [4][5]

Not let's move on to the funding and abortion itself.

s://saynsumthn.files.wordpress.com...; alt="" />

I have already shown how Planned Parenthood is not trustworthy with a single penny of Federal Funding, but now I intend to continue to show how they are violating the Hyde Amendment. Once again, here is another graph from the GAO. It shows a direct corrilation between an increasing of federal funds and the increasing of abortions preformed. My opponent may point again to his graph showing that Planned Parenthood only does 3% of their total opperations in abortion, but we have to remember that they have a major transparency issue that the GAO has reported multiple times. Even in Kansas, a Kansas Supreme Court rages over Planned Parenthood creating over 100 false documents so they could preform illegal abortions. [6] In 2010, a similiar case occured in California where there was a case of multimillion dollar fraud case in which Planned Parenthood misused federal funding to artificially raise the price on birth control pills and the prices remain that way to this day. [7]



Here we can see that even though abortion is only 3% of their business operations we can see that it means a whole lot more than that. The graph you see above is their 2008 profit margins of abortion vs other types of businesses they offer. We can see that abortion is very profitable for them, so you can see that this is something that they would want to maximize and they have done this by going under the table. [8] We can see that this explains for a lot of the transparency and fraud and even some of their embezzlement issues. We see that since abortion isn't covered by Medicare that there are issues in the system and that it is more costly to get an abortion which hurts the clinic, but when that is worked around they can maximize profits. This is almost completely found true in the graph bellow. We can see that despite being all about "Planned Parenthood" it seems more likely than not that they try to prevent it more via abortions.




We cannot have another bad corrupt industry that is nearly more corruption than Boss Tweed's Tamney Hall and this completely demands defunding, but there are many other reasons as to why we should. As I brought up in my last round that we must stick to the Hayek model of "Creative Destruction." Not to mention that my opponent leaves out that there are plenty of other clinics out there that can easily fill this void left behind by Planned Parenthood and this would increase the incentive to continue innovation as I have brought up.

We can easily see that the Planned Parenthood is a corrupt organization that does everything from over charge, to loose government money, to even breaking the law in just about every form. It's rediculious.

Sources
1. (http://www.gao.gov...)
3. (http://www.texaswatchdog.org...)
4. (http://www.washingtontimes.com...)
5. (http://www.lifeliberty.net...)
6. (http://www.mcclatchydc.com...)
7. (http://aclj.org...) [use wayback machine]
8. (http://www.lynnscatholictreasures.com...)
Debate Round No. 3
noxdoloris

Con

noxdoloris forfeited this round.
lannan13

Pro

All points extended.

Thank you and please vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
Since my graphs didn't want to post I'll post the links for them here.
Graph 1: (https://saynsumthn.files.wordpress.com...)
Graph 2: (https://saynsumthn.files.wordpress.com...)
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
Please wait a few days. Thanks.
Posted by retrovision 1 year ago
retrovision
Con said " It is commonly agreed that this (pp) is a good thing. " I don't think that's commonly agreed. Having known women that work for Planned Parenthood, every dead baby they can make is a notch in the belt for feminism.

What a bunch of nasty ghouls. Now they want to part out the dead babies for rich people to live longer. How this doesn't make your skin crawl is unbelievable.

I have a birth control method that is 100% effective and much cheaper. You take a quarter and put it between your knees.
Posted by noxdoloris 1 year ago
noxdoloris
I have updated the debate to 4 rounds first is acceptance and a 10k character limit
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
And a 10k character limit.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
Please make this into a 4 round debate which first is acceptance.
Posted by lannan13 1 year ago
lannan13
I will accept tomorrow.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
noxdolorislannan13Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff a round, so conduct to Pro.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
noxdolorislannan13Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, so conduct to Pro. Also, Pro's arguments were pretty much dropped by Con. Who didn't really address them, even though they were pretty important in terms of ethics. Pro was also able to show that planned parenthood, the organization that Con was defending, actually engages in all kinds of unethical behavior. Con was unable to respond to most of what Pro said, due to their forfeiture. Pro had his arguments about planned parenthood backed up by many sources, whereas Con was simply making claims without any real evidence.
Vote Placed by tajshar2k 1 year ago
tajshar2k
noxdolorislannan13Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF